elecrtical help

[frozendozer]

hello all

i've just finished fixing the final drive clutches on my 440 icd and had the fun of driving it around last night. I am now at the electrical re-wiring stage. It appears that the machine has been modified from its original positive ground system and is now a negative ground workings.

i can hold my own on the fixing of mechanical stuff, but the electrical has me going crossed eye'd and all confused.

i got a copy of a wiring diagram that shows the battery grounded on a positive, My question is can i rewire the machine by using the same schematic, just replacing the negative for the positive?

would the wires from the generator still be wired the same way to the voltage regulator?

on the diagram it shows the A spot on the generator wired into the "GEN" on the regulator and the "F" on the generator is wired to the "FLO" on the voltage regulator.

thanks all, tonight i put the blade on the front and maybe get to puch dirt....yeah, its been almost 2 1/2 years in the journey to get here, but its been worth it

[Lavoy]

If it is still 6 volts, someone put the battery in backwards. Put it in the right way, and don't worry about polarity. You will likely need a new regulator, and will probably need to re-polarize the generator.
Lavoy

[shinnery]

Lavoy, I don't believe the 440ICDs were ever 6 volts, they may have been positive ground. I cannot visuallze spinning that Jimmy over with 6 volts.
The only time you usually need negative ground is to use an automotive alternator in place of the generator. The only two things to be aware of are the voltage regulator and ammeter when converting grounds. The regulator may not survive the switch and the ammeter will read discharge when it is actually charging.
An extra thought or question is electrical hour meters, will they run backwards when the ground is changed?
Bryce

[frozendozer]

the battery that was in the machine was a 12 volt, so i replaced it with the same. It has a generator and i just purchased a new replacement voltage regulator.

if i reverse the battery cables to go the positive ground, wouldn't it then spin the motor backwards?

[fixedforever]

Put a one wire alternator in it. Its way easier then the generator / voltage regulator.

[shinnery]

The way starters are series wound and wired they spin the same direction no matter which direction current flows thru them.
A generator doesn't care which polarity of current it puts out. It just has to be polarized or told what is needed out of it.
Bryce

[jdemaris]

the battery that was in the machine was a 12 volt, so i replaced it with the same. It has a generator and i just purchased a new replacement voltage regulator.

You have to match the polarity of the voltage regulator, and it will be marked. That is, unless it's been replaced with a universal reguator that can be used either way. The OEM Delcos could not. A universal reg will be marked "neg" and "pos."

[Lavoy]

I didn't see the D at the end of the IC, sorry. Correct, they were never 12 volt, guess I am going to have to wear my glasses, or get a bigger monitor.
Lavoy

[JD440ICD2006]

From what I have been told, engineers thought that the positive ground system created less corrosion due to the electrons running backwards. From what I have seen, it does not reduce corrosion much. Keeping the terminals clean and using a good anticorrosion spray does!

The only thing that matters for it work properly is the polarity of the regulator. Make sure the regulator you have is the correct polarity that you wish to use or is stamped for both "NEG & POS" use.

A regulator must be polarized once you have everything connected. Most regulators have instructions on how to do this.

http://www.vernco.com/sparks/id569

Using an alternator is a lazy way out and reduces the value due to it not being an original part on these gems from the past.

I run generator/regular systems on all of mine and have no trouble. My 730D was changed back to the orginal charging system in 2001, I still have the same battery! (I usually only get 3-5 years out of most batteries in my vehicles with alternators)

[frozendozer]

if i have my machine a positive grounded unit, would it effect the way i would boost it with my truck?

i think i understand the concepts everyone has shared with me. the voltage regulator is brand new and i will see what information is on it, to see if i can run it with a negative ground. i don't want to go to the alternator route as i just paid $80 bucks for the reg.

thanks all, any more advice will be much appreciated.

[JD440ICD2006]

Matters not how you have it set up. When boosting, just hook "POS" to "POS", and "NEG" to NEG".
The chassis of equipment is nothing more than a conductor, just like a wire.

[jdemaris]

From what I have been told, engineers thought that the positive ground system created less corrosion due to the electrons running backwards.

Negative and positive gound systems have advantages in certain types of uses, and positive ground is still used in some new equipment. There are also several types of positive ground, or groundless alternators.

Historically, there used to be two opposing schools of thought in electrical engineering - the Hole Theory and the Electron Theory. One favored positive ground and the other negative ground. Both are still valid and both at still just theories, i.e. neither has been proven or disproven.

The only thing that matters for it work properly is the polarity of the regulator. Make sure the regulator you have is the correct polarity that you wish to use or is stamped for both "NEG & POS" use.
A regulator must be polarized once you have everything connected. Most regulators have instructions on how to do this.

I' ve got to disagree with that. The reason why you polarize is to get the correct residual magnetism built up in the generator. Without it, it cannot excite itself. The regulator is all electro-mechanical and does not need that residual magnetism to work. It is the generator that must be polarized, not the regulator.

[jdemaris]

if i have my machine a positive grounded unit, would it effect the way i would boost it with my truck?

i think i understand the concepts everyone has shared with me. the voltage regulator is brand new and i will see what information is on it, to see if i can run it with a negative ground. i don't want to go to the alternator route as i just paid $80 bucks for the reg.

That's certainly make sense. It's also why I don't bother with generators unless I need the machine to look original. A old DC generator, besides being exspensive to repair and/or maintain - wastes half the potential energy it creates - as compared to an AC- rectified to -DC "alternator."

[JD440ICD2006]

I see your points. I am guilty of using assumptions. I assumed that we know the generator is what was being polarized, but for simplicity and practicality, I also know that it is readily done at the GEN and ARM post of the regulator if it is a Delco.
I was just not in the mood to go to my foot to get to my elbow.

[jdemaris]

I see your points. I am guilty of using assumptions. I assumed that we know the generator is what was being polarized, but for simplicity and practicality, I also know that it is readily done at the GEN and ARM post of the regulator if it is a Delco.
I was just not in the mood to go to my foot to get to my elbow.

Yeah, there are many ways into the fields besides doing it directly. The main point is - it is only the generator that gets polarized, since it is the only part of the system that relies on residual magnetism with the poles in the correct locations. Modern alternators also have it, but don't need it since they use field current from the battery to excite. But, many alternators will self-excite just like an old generator if you spin them fast enough.

Same goes with modern gas powered generator sets. Some of them too rely on residual magnetism to excite. A back-door way to polarize them in through the AC outlet.