timing 1010 pump

[crj]

I have been reading this forum for a while and found it very informative so much so I purchased a nonrunning 1010.A blown head gasket I was told.So with a new head and afore mentioned head gasket,new injectors,glow plugs,and injector pump I have reach my currant problem.The injector pump had a total rebuild ($1400) but on install the marks on pump would be 1/4 inch apart and pump at end of adjustmenting slot.Rebuilder told me pump can only be put together one way the problem has to be elsewhere.I tryed moveing the oil pump 1 tooth on cam and that only reversed pump mark to opposite side and end of adjustment slot opposite way.I returned to original position without trying to start as I knew machine would run the way it was.Rebuilder came out to try and time it for me and only confirmed timing was 8 degrees out with no more adjustment.I took pump back to rebuilder and reinstalled.Magically marks now line up but machine runs terrible and smokes bad.I adjusted by ear and it sounds smooth but I know marks cannot be anywhere close.Am now waiting for rebuilder to come back out and check timing.
What is going on in that pump?From can only be put together one way (but marks 1/4inch out) to having marks line up but not run smooth or clean.I need a little more input on this pump.
I know there are other issues to come i.e.no steering clutch right side brake only,many many hydrolic leaks,tranny pops out of 2nd.But first things first.
Thanks guys 1010 #19338
pump#dbgvc429-3aj

[jdemaris]

The injector pump had a total rebuild ($1400) but on install the marks on pump would be 1/4 inch apart and pump at end of adjustmenting slot.Rebuilder told me pump can only be put together one way the problem has to be elsewhere. 1010 #19338
pump#dbgvc429-3aj

First of all, how the heck did anyone justify a $1400 repair bill? I could replace every major part in that pump for less then $500. And, that is rarely done. Usually most parts are reused as-is and less than $75 in new parts are installed. In the case of a pump that was totally trashed/siezed and needed a new driveshaft and head & rotor assembly - then I can see where a total $750 might be possible. But $1400? Did you get an itemized bill?

As far as the pump only going together one-way - that is nonsense. The pump can go together many ways - and . . . the timing marks usually have to be installed, by hand, by the person working on the pump. The weight-retainer gets laid on top of a degree wheel and the timing marks then etched on for whatever degrees that pump calls for. If the marks were etched on at the wrong place, you wouldn't be able to line them up when installing.

Your pump is supposed to have the timing marks etched on at 47.5 degrees. That pump is a later 1010 pump with speed timing advance that works as thus: 1 pump degree at 350-475 pump RPM; 5 pump degrees at 1000-1125 pump RPM, and 7 pump degrees at 1325 pump RPM. Keep in mind that pump degrees and pump RPMs are both 1/2 of engine degrees and RPM.

As far as your machine goes right now? If I was working on it, I'd already supsect the person who worked on that pump. But obviously, I have no way of knowing if the work was done properly or not.
1010 injection pumps, depending on vintage, can have those timing marks put on at 47.5, 48.5, or 50.5 degrees. That's a very wide range with 3 pump degrees of variation -that equals 6 degrees at the engine flywheel. If your's got marked to earlier 1010 specs at 50.5 degrees, your pump would be 6 engine degrees out of wack.
If the pump timing is suspect, you can air-time it to verify, without using the two timing marks in the pump. Or, you can run the engine and hook a timing light to it. To do that, you need a Piezo pulse-adatptor that hooks to an injection line and sends a signal to a conventional, gas-engine type timing light. Or, you can ask the guy who worked on that pump where exactly he put those timing marks (at what degrees).

[crj]

Thanks for the reply John. Head and rotor on invoice was $690 the rest is smaller amounts that all add up i.e. pilot tube $11.30,metering valve $27.63 etc. labor was $360.
Pump guy will come out when I have time right now work is interfering with my project. He has that pulse and light thing.
So when it is set the timing marks will be useless I guess,not so good for the future.Maybe I can run an electric engraver thru the window so if pump has to be removed for what ever reason (about 6 times so far) I can reset it myself,sound do-able?

[jdemaris]

Thanks for the reply John. Head and rotor on invoice was $690 the rest is smaller amounts that all add up i.e. pilot tube $11.30,metering valve $27.63 etc. labor was $360.
Pump guy will come out when I have time right now work is interfering with my project. He has that pulse and light thing.
So when it is set the timing marks will be useless I guess,not so good for the future.Maybe I can run an electric engraver thru the window so if pump has to be removed for what ever reason (about 6 times so far) I can reset it myself,sound do-able?

I think you got a bad deal. A new head & rotor usually costs around $275 if you shop around. Many are now made in China, India, and Italy, including Stanadyne OEM (from Stanadyne of Italy). New pilot tube is around $6, metering valve around $11, seal kit $12, etc. That and two hours labor.

Also, there are many places selling rebuilt 1010 pumps for $834 outright price, or $634 with your trade-in. That's an everyday price, and you can often find them cheaper. So, I can't think of a good reason to spend twice that for the same result.

In regard to timing? I'd find out exactly where this guy put your timing marks. If not, air time it. Using the timing light is only good for a relative comparison, i.e. you need to check another tractor first and see what the "lag" is, between your injection pulse readings and what the pump shows with it's marks. The confusing issue when using a timing light is this. It tells you when an injection pulse is being sent by the injection pump and NOT when the engine is actually firing. With a gas engine, spark travels at the speed of light so that's not a big issue. With a diesel, a liquid fuel charge travels much slower, so time of injection pulse happens before time of actual time of combustion. I.e., a "lag." So, unless you have some published figures somewhere of what a light should be showing you, it gets very confusing. When Deere gives timing specs, they are not fully explained. Typically, Deere specs might say to have engine flywheel at TDC mark for #1 cylinder, and pump timing marks lined up. Also might say that pump timing marks advance 7 degrees at full advance. But, that tells you little about actual engine timing, or actual injection pulse timing - although usually, when pump marks are lined up that IS time of injection for #1 cylinder.
If that sounds confusing, that's because it is. Much easier just to put the pump together correctly and use the timing marks.
I'll add that there is also another way to check timing that also has it's own specs. Sticking a luminosity probe into a glow-plug hole. This method actually sees when the engine fires. This is the preferred method used in GM and Ford-IH diesels.

[crj]

I think I was a little hasty with my reply post, after thinking on it last night I agree, for what I paid pump will come off again and he can set up for marks at 47.5 degrees then come out and check timing at rpm's you've given me.That should be the end of that.Truely appreciate your input this has been dragging out 3 weeks or more and I'd like to move on.