JD40C
JD40C
Help!!!! Got a 1955 JD40 crawler and need to figure out how to get it to roll so that I can get it into my shop for major repair work. It was tied to a tree and trailer pulled out from under it. I have no experience with crawlers but have just enough ambition to undertake a reasonable restoration. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.It was totally rebuilt 7 years ago and then with only a few hours on it, it sat out in the Oregon rain uncovered.. Engine seems bound and tracks wont roll. Can I seperate the tracks and work on the rollers ect.? Once under cover, I believe I can live and learn without it getting and worse.
Old and rusty, green, yellow & crusty.
-
Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2904
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
Tracks roll better than wheels when the transmission is in neutral. If it's not moving, then I suspect that your track chain pins are rusted to the bushings.
If so, then you're not only not going to roll it, you're going to have one fun (not) time getting the tracks off the machine. Those pins have to move inside the bushings to allow the track to flex off the sprocket and idler to lay flat on the ground.
Plus, there is only one master pin per rail, and if that's not located where you can get to it to remove it, you can't split the chain. The other pins are press fit in place and so you can't just split the track at any old place.
This leaves you with the task of pulling the idler back, presuming you can get that to move, then working the sprocket off and finally slipping the stiff rails off sideways.
Lots of jacking and prying, for sure.
Not fun. Not fun at all.
This is why I put my crawlers under a roof and up on wood - so the track pins don't wind up frozen.....
later!
Stan
Tracks roll better than wheels when the transmission is in neutral. If it's not moving, then I suspect that your track chain pins are rusted to the bushings.
If so, then you're not only not going to roll it, you're going to have one fun (not) time getting the tracks off the machine. Those pins have to move inside the bushings to allow the track to flex off the sprocket and idler to lay flat on the ground.
Plus, there is only one master pin per rail, and if that's not located where you can get to it to remove it, you can't split the chain. The other pins are press fit in place and so you can't just split the track at any old place.
This leaves you with the task of pulling the idler back, presuming you can get that to move, then working the sprocket off and finally slipping the stiff rails off sideways.
Lots of jacking and prying, for sure.
Not fun. Not fun at all.
This is why I put my crawlers under a roof and up on wood - so the track pins don't wind up frozen.....
later!
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
-
JimAnderson
- 1010 crawler
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:01 pm
- Location: Gloucester,Virginia
40c
Dana,
Stan is right about frozen pins and bushings.That is a labor intensive
pain in the rear.If this is not the problem in your case you might
try this.High up on the final drive housings is the final drive pinion quill
that is attached with three nuts or bolts.Remove the cover and you
will see the drive pinion.Remove the snap ring and wiggle out the pinion.
It will come out! A pair of gator nosed vise grips work best but needle
nose pliers will work.Wiggle and pull.Once the pinion is out of both
sides then put the covers back.This bypasses the clutches and brakes.
You can now tow the machine but keep in mind there will be NO brakes.
Good luck,JimAnderson.
Stan is right about frozen pins and bushings.That is a labor intensive
pain in the rear.If this is not the problem in your case you might
try this.High up on the final drive housings is the final drive pinion quill
that is attached with three nuts or bolts.Remove the cover and you
will see the drive pinion.Remove the snap ring and wiggle out the pinion.
It will come out! A pair of gator nosed vise grips work best but needle
nose pliers will work.Wiggle and pull.Once the pinion is out of both
sides then put the covers back.This bypasses the clutches and brakes.
You can now tow the machine but keep in mind there will be NO brakes.
Good luck,JimAnderson.
-
Jack-the-Ripper
- 440 crawler
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:28 pm
- Location: Napa, CA
If you only had to move it a couple hundred feet in a straight line you could jack it up and place a "sandwich" of two 2x10s stuffed with 2" pipe "rollers" under each track. With two more boards you "leapfrog" the bottom ones and tow or push the tractor along. I'd use at least 8 pipe rollers on each side to keep the weight from denting the boards. On a smooth hard surface you could eliminate the bottom boards. Of course you have no brakes, and turning requires angling the rollers and more boards to increase the width below. Its difficult to keep this system from sliding sideways on a side hill.
If when jacked up the tracks don't sag on the bottom, then they are probably rusted stuck at the pins.
Really this is just a crude version of the machine's rollers running in its own tracks. Since the tracks are most probably rusted stuck and will have to be replaced, you could torch off the old ones, remove the sprockets if they're in the way, and use the tractor's rollers instead of the pipes as above, and the new tracks instead of the planks, using the straight bottom sections of the old tracks to hold the machine while you leap frog the new tracks to the next position. If necessary you could remove every other pad and install it on the new tracks.
Since we're really trying to get some wheels under the thing you could just get it up on another trailer, perhaps with a winch and the boards and pipe rollers as above, if you have to travel far or do much turning. Can you access a crane?
Finally, since we're thinking out of the box, how about moving the box instead, and building a shop over the tractor?
If when jacked up the tracks don't sag on the bottom, then they are probably rusted stuck at the pins.
Really this is just a crude version of the machine's rollers running in its own tracks. Since the tracks are most probably rusted stuck and will have to be replaced, you could torch off the old ones, remove the sprockets if they're in the way, and use the tractor's rollers instead of the pipes as above, and the new tracks instead of the planks, using the straight bottom sections of the old tracks to hold the machine while you leap frog the new tracks to the next position. If necessary you could remove every other pad and install it on the new tracks.
Since we're really trying to get some wheels under the thing you could just get it up on another trailer, perhaps with a winch and the boards and pipe rollers as above, if you have to travel far or do much turning. Can you access a crane?
Finally, since we're thinking out of the box, how about moving the box instead, and building a shop over the tractor?
JD450C (Jack the Ripper), JD450B (Jill the Wench), KomatsuPC120 (Ursa, The Big Dipper), Case580E (Ida Hoe), International 4400 Dump Truck
-
JimAnderson
- 1010 crawler
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:01 pm
- Location: Gloucester,Virginia
40c
Dana,
With the transmission in neutral the crawler should roll in
a straight line even with stuck clutches.If the brake bands are frozen
to the drums with rust or the pins and bushings are froze then no
go.If the brakes are frozen don't pour any penetrates or lubricants
into clutch housing as this will ruin the friction surfaces.You did'nt say what book you ordered but the parts and service manuals are
available and highly recomended.If you have the time search this site
for the answers to any question you may have.There has been a huge
amount of information posted.Luck,JimAnderson.
With the transmission in neutral the crawler should roll in
a straight line even with stuck clutches.If the brake bands are frozen
to the drums with rust or the pins and bushings are froze then no
go.If the brakes are frozen don't pour any penetrates or lubricants
into clutch housing as this will ruin the friction surfaces.You did'nt say what book you ordered but the parts and service manuals are
available and highly recomended.If you have the time search this site
for the answers to any question you may have.There has been a huge
amount of information posted.Luck,JimAnderson.
-
Paul Buhler
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 991
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 6:25 pm
- Location: Killington, VT
If the machine has only been sitting for 7 years since moving, some of the pins may be still loose. I'd try loosening the track adjusters so that the tracks can sag and beat and pry on the top links to see if you get any movement. Jack up the crawler and use a pry bar on the bottom links to see the same thing (gravity is your friend in this case). From there you can assess which of the more drastic actions might be needed. Paul
Paul Buhler
Killington, VT
420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch
Killington, VT
420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch
-
mapaduke@yahoo.com
- 1010 crawler
- Posts: 420
- Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:27 pm
- Location: Rochester N.H.
I just picked up a mc and its tracks would not turn.it sat for 5 years .the boot for the shift lever was rotted and let water in and the shift forks wont move so i rigged the clutch petal so it would stay disengaged and dragged it with my mini excavator and after about 30 ft they broke free. the brake bands must have been frozen to the drums.
maybe you can use a friends tractor and drag it. take a sledge hammer to the track pads.it may jar the pins loose if that is where the problem is
maybe you can use a friends tractor and drag it. take a sledge hammer to the track pads.it may jar the pins loose if that is where the problem is
nothing crawles like a deere
Dana, DO NOT USE PENETRATING OIL ON THE PINS AND BUSHINGS !
The oil will mix with the dirt and rust to form lapping compound, not good for rail longevity.
I helped a friend move his Case dozer into his shop and with frozen tracks when he first got it many years ago. We used his John Deere "G", planking and 3" pipe rollers to get it up the hill into his shop. Six ten foot planks, ten two foot pieces of 3" pipe and my set of of railroad crane chains, and 5 guys to move it 200 feet from just off the road to his shop. It was a slow job but we got it done.
Dan
The oil will mix with the dirt and rust to form lapping compound, not good for rail longevity.
I helped a friend move his Case dozer into his shop and with frozen tracks when he first got it many years ago. We used his John Deere "G", planking and 3" pipe rollers to get it up the hill into his shop. Six ten foot planks, ten two foot pieces of 3" pipe and my set of of railroad crane chains, and 5 guys to move it 200 feet from just off the road to his shop. It was a slow job but we got it done.
Dan
1956 420C with GSC blade
Tools are to men as shoes are to women , you can never have too many !!
Used diesel engines are an adventure any way you look at them !!
Tools are to men as shoes are to women , you can never have too many !!
Used diesel engines are an adventure any way you look at them !!
Dan,
Thanks for the penetrating oil tip, that certainly would have been my first approach. What is the best jacking point. It seems that the square tubing extending outward from the tracks is the most centered and accessable point. Are they the rock guards? One sticks out about 8 inches past the tracks, the other forward square is flush with the outer edge of tracks.
One other probably dumb question... What is the differance between the JD40c and the MC? The book I ordered did not mention MC when I ordered it. What publication is the best?, and where can I order one?
Thanks
Dana
Thanks to all for the plank and roller tip. I dont have far to go, maybe 200 feet on very uneven ground.
Thanks for the penetrating oil tip, that certainly would have been my first approach. What is the best jacking point. It seems that the square tubing extending outward from the tracks is the most centered and accessable point. Are they the rock guards? One sticks out about 8 inches past the tracks, the other forward square is flush with the outer edge of tracks.
One other probably dumb question... What is the differance between the JD40c and the MC? The book I ordered did not mention MC when I ordered it. What publication is the best?, and where can I order one?
Thanks
Dana
Thanks to all for the plank and roller tip. I dont have far to go, maybe 200 feet on very uneven ground.
Old and rusty, green, yellow & crusty.
Dana, a 40C manual from Mother Deere, would be the best. I bought my manuals as a download to my computer from here.
http://www.johndeeretechinfo.com/
Create a user name and pass word for the site and then search for your crawlers manual.
Do the tubes you are asking about, attach to the track frames and the side frames of the crawler? If they do then you can use them to support the crawler.
Dan.
http://www.johndeeretechinfo.com/
Create a user name and pass word for the site and then search for your crawlers manual.
Do the tubes you are asking about, attach to the track frames and the side frames of the crawler? If they do then you can use them to support the crawler.
Dan.
1956 420C with GSC blade
Tools are to men as shoes are to women , you can never have too many !!
Used diesel engines are an adventure any way you look at them !!
Tools are to men as shoes are to women , you can never have too many !!
Used diesel engines are an adventure any way you look at them !!
-
Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2904
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
The M series predated the 40 series. Much is the same, but there were some updates along the way. One thing is that the MC was only available with a 3-roller track, while they added the 4-roller option for the 40c series. Then, later on they added the 5-roller option. Some parts used changed each time. That's when serial numbers become important. More on that later.
The way the Deere service manuals are written, you need both the M and the 40 series manuals to work on a 40. If you have a 420, then you need the M, 40, and 420 manuals.
They were meant for servicing dealers and it is expected that such a shop would already have all the earlier manuals, so when a new series came out the only things in the new manuals are what is different from before. For things that did not change, you have to refer to the earlier manuals.
For example, to work on my Phase-III 420c, I need four service manuals, the M, the 40, the 420, and the 430. The 430 manual is needed as my 420c is so late production that they used the differential-style direction reverser and it is not covered at all by the 420 service manual, but is covered by the 430 one. There are also some things about the engine that are not in the 420 manual, but are in the 430.
As I think on it, there's quite a number of things on my 420 that I need to reference in the 430 manual because it's different. I think my 420c might have been using up 420 dash and tin parts just prior to the changeover to the 430 back in 1958. Oh, well, I have it covered.
Now, the parts manual is inclusive to all the models, M thru 440, but you do need to know your serial number as it will list all the various part numbers for a given item, with serial number breakdown so you can choose the proper number for the part you need.
Later!
Stan
The M series predated the 40 series. Much is the same, but there were some updates along the way. One thing is that the MC was only available with a 3-roller track, while they added the 4-roller option for the 40c series. Then, later on they added the 5-roller option. Some parts used changed each time. That's when serial numbers become important. More on that later.
The way the Deere service manuals are written, you need both the M and the 40 series manuals to work on a 40. If you have a 420, then you need the M, 40, and 420 manuals.
They were meant for servicing dealers and it is expected that such a shop would already have all the earlier manuals, so when a new series came out the only things in the new manuals are what is different from before. For things that did not change, you have to refer to the earlier manuals.
For example, to work on my Phase-III 420c, I need four service manuals, the M, the 40, the 420, and the 430. The 430 manual is needed as my 420c is so late production that they used the differential-style direction reverser and it is not covered at all by the 420 service manual, but is covered by the 430 one. There are also some things about the engine that are not in the 420 manual, but are in the 430.
As I think on it, there's quite a number of things on my 420 that I need to reference in the 430 manual because it's different. I think my 420c might have been using up 420 dash and tin parts just prior to the changeover to the 430 back in 1958. Oh, well, I have it covered.
Now, the parts manual is inclusive to all the models, M thru 440, but you do need to know your serial number as it will list all the various part numbers for a given item, with serial number breakdown so you can choose the proper number for the part you need.
Later!
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 95 guests