420 loader questions

[gus]

I'm attaching photo of a tractor I just hauled home. As you can see from the photo, the loader has been locked up. It is being held up by a piece of angle iron over each cyl rod "U" clamped in place at both ends (on both cylinders).

Having it in the air and kids around makes me nervous and I want to remove the loader. Right now, I just need the bucket off and arms off.

I don't have any equipment that will hold it up so I can remove the angles and let it down slowly. My baby excavator might be able to lift the bucket only but I don't know how much it weighs. The front loader on my small JD tractor might also but it has a 600lb lift rating and I don't want to tear it up. I have no other way to get a hoist on it.

This is where I need some help...how much does that bucket weigh? If I could get the bucket off, the rest would be easy.

The only other thought I had was to set up a hydr connect with my JD and the loader, then use it's hydr to lower the bucket. I'm somewhat concerned about contaminating the new JD hydr with bad oil as this things been sitting out a long time.

Any suggestions??

[gus]

A thought just hit me. I do have air near by. Could I use air to hold the cylinder up and then lower it slowly?? I could set up a temporary "T", on the lift side, to my compressor (150psi), jack it up, remove the clamps then bleed the air off.
???

[Gil]

You have those big trees around there. I think I would push the loader over close to a tree. Put a choke chain high up around the tree. Put a chain hoist from the choke chain to the loader bucket. Tighten the chain hoist enough to get the weight off of the cylinder angle irons so you can remove them. Then let the bucket and loader arms down slowly with the chain hoist.

Of course it would be a lot easier if your small tractor could lift it. What is it, like a lawn and garden tractor? If it will even reach up that high, try to push up on the loader bucket. If it can lift it up, it can lower it down still attached to the loader arms once the angle irons are removed.

One thing you mentioned I would definitely not try to do, and that is to remove the bucket from the loader arms while it is still in mid air. I would not want to be around, much less your kids, if you tried to do that.

Good luck, Gil

[JimAnderson]

Gus,
One thing you might try is to raise the rear of track frame to
allow the bucket to touch the ground and go from there.The excavator
you have should do that.Once the bucket is off the amount of weight
left to hold up should be minimal.As a parent I share your concern
about leaving that load in mid air.Did you bring it home like that?
If you did than it will probably stay that way for a long time.
Luck,JimAnderson

[Lavoy]

IF there are angle irons clamped to the rams, it is not coming down, I would leave it be if you don't have adequate equipment to handle it.
Lavoy

[redkneckracer]

put the bucket of your hoe under the loader bucket and just take the weight off the hoist cylinders cut a spruce long enogh to stand under the bucket pop both pins out of the hoist cylinders then back up and push the spruce over with your hoe ( from a distance) and let the boom just drop.. just make sure the youngsters are in the house

[Steven Walters]

Porta power and a few fitting should do the job. And a bucket to catch the oil.

[markvdh]

With all due respect to all the good sugestions, I'm with Lavoy. Although there's a jillion ways to get it down, if you don't have the right equipment that can handle it, someone could get hurt really bad. You'll be amazed at how much that bucket weighs, and how unstable it is that high in the air once you release it from the loader arms, etc.

If you're worried about it, build a truss underneath it to assure that it won't tip until you have the proper lifting equipment in place to take it down or apart.

We'd all hate to hear of you getting hurt.

Mark V

[markvdh]

Good. That makes me more comfortable. Just don't want to see anybody hurt. Thanks Ralph.

Mark V

[gus]

I've been reading all the suggestions. Weather right now is bad, so it will be while before I can get out there. I have to move a piece of equipment from in front of it before I can do anything. Using a tree is out. They are not as close as they appear!!

If I can figure out a way to use the it's own hydraulics to lower itself, that is my first choice. I have buddy that might be able to rig up an air/hydr set up for me and with a big enough can to increase the pressure, it should do it.

I'm going to try lifting it with the excavator. There is a problem possible with doing that. As you can see from the photo, the bucket is pointed down. It could roll back and get away from me when letting it down. I think the hay bales under it would make a good cushion should that happen. Acually I doubt there would be any damage should it get away and just drop.

There will be NO WAY that I will be under that thing at ANY time should Murphy show up to help.

[JD440ICD2006]

I am not sure how well air mixed with hydraulic oil is going to work, if that is what you are talking about trying. Air not a good "fluid" to use in this type of hydraulic cylinder because it is not stable and will compress. Hydraulic fluid is used because it does not compress.
Provided that you know the cylinders are full of oil on the correct side of the piston, why not couple both of the "down" lines together, and add a good valve. As you slowly open the valve to let the oil out, the cylinders will come down. You control the "flow rate" just as you do on a piece of equipment. If something is not right, you can close the valve and the cylinders will stop in place.
The only thing that you cannot do like this is raise them back up from any point once they have dropped down.

[Lavoy]

Air will not lift it, not enough pressure. Also, air "springs" whereas hyd fluid does not, and you get yourself into real trouble. Again, maybe I am missing something here, but if it is locked up as you say it is, there is no danger. Most all of the scenarios you have described to lower it involve from a small amount to a large amount of danger given the equipment you have, I guess I don't understand the impetus to tempt fate.
Lavoy

[gus]

I will not be putting air into the cylinders. If I use air at all, I will take something like an 8-10" well casing and weld ends into it and plumb it to the clyinders. All oil, no air to the cylinders or anywhere in the system. Fill it with oil and put air on top of the oil. 150 psi of air on "x" sq in of oil (surface area) should give enough pressure to lift it . This is the same system used in commercial floor jacks or press's that use air over oil. There would be a valve on the bottom (oil side). This will allow slow lowering once the angles are removed.

As to why...this thing is nose heavy right now. No counter weights on the rear. I have to remove the loader to move it. The angles holding it up are light and I simply do not trust them. Kids are kids...ever climb on anything????

[Lavoy]

Your theory on the air over jacks and presses is incorrect. In that type of application, the air operates a pnuematic driven piston pump that pressurizes the oil to several thousand PSI.
Your loader ran at about 1500PSI, 150 psi will not lift anything. Additionally, the fact that your are pressurizing an oil reservoir does not change the fact that you are still using air, and still have have the sudden potential "spring". All you have created is a low pressure accumulator, and it still has air in it, hence the spring effect still exists.
Lavoy

[Tigerhaze]

Out of curiousity, is the loader bucket ona 420 all that heavy? I ask because I have a spare general purpose bucket for my 2010 crawler and I can tip it over by pushing it over (with effort) so I am guessing it doesn't weigh more than 500 pounds or so.