440 ICD Engine shutting down.

parkmanaa · Post by **parkmanaa** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:34 pm

I own 440 ICD S/N 450563
The engine was getting weak so we overhauled it, top & bottom (sleeves, pistons, rings, all bearings, shaved head, new valves, guides,springs & seats). Completely disassembled injectors, cleaned and carefully put them back together. Everything looked good at that point.

Sure sounded good when we cranked it up after overhaul.......but we are experiencing a new problem, and it is pretty predictible.
When it sits overnight, next morning with a little ether it starts right up, runs good, for 4 to 5 minutes. Then it starts shutting down and there is nothing we can do but let it die.

It has a pretty heavy gray-blue exhaust smoke when it first starts, but before it shuts down it has almost no smoke.

Have I given enough clues for someone to speculate on what the problem might be?

JD440ICD2006 · Post by **JD440ICD2006** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:28 pm

The rebuilt injectors are not expensive, and issures that you have a good spray, etc. One small piece of trash, dirt, or dust and the injector could fail as this sounds like. No smoke means no fuel.
Not to be taken the wrong way, but I would caution using ether unless it is very cold outside.
Did you go back with the "S" type or the "N" type pistons and injectors. I think I know the answer since you rebuilt the injectors and they were likely "S" type.
The "N" type increase compression from 17 to 1 up to 21 to 1 and really helps with starting.
Granted if it is real cold, you will need a little sniff of ether, but very little.
If it is not the injectors, there is a fuel blockage somewhere, a failing fuel pump, a plugged up tank vent, etc.
Keep in mind the fuel on these is flowing all the time. The pump runs it up to the injectors, and what is not used is pumped back to the tank.
Keep us posted on what you find to be the answer.

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:01 pm

FUEL lack of

parkmanaa · Post by **parkmanaa** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:25 am

JD440ICD2006, thanks for your help.
I know the problem is lack of fuel, just wasn't sure what else to try.
We removed the fuel tank, thoroughly cleaned it out, final rinse with diesel. Removed and cleaned out the fuel canister, installed new fuel filter.

I forgot to mention, we did not disassemble and clean the injectors during the overhaul. The shutdown after 4 to 5 minutes began immediateely after starting it the first time. It is doing the same thing after we rebuilt the injectors. Guess that is why I didn't suspect injectors as the problem.
As to the smoke, it begins fairly heavy on starting, and then quickly starts getting less and less until the last 30 seconds or so before shutdown it is smoking very little.

The service manual mentions a restrictor in the diesel return line to the tank. This unit doesn't have one. Is that critical?

Appreciate the help; we will keep tinkering and probably go ahead and buy a set of rebuilt injectors.

Lavoy, do you have these in stock?

JD440ICD2006 · Post by **JD440ICD2006** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:52 am

The restrictor is very essential as it keeps pressure from that point back to the pump. The injectors use various amounts of fuel depending on throttle setting and load so this makes sure there is enough fuel at the injectors at all times. It also keeps air out of the system.
Did you check your fuel pump to make sure it is pumping properly?
Checked for air leaks on the suction side of the pump? That is the line from the pump to the filter.
Do you have the proper filter that allows enough fuel through?
Do you have any throttle response while it is running?
Are the fuel lines connected correctly?

Keep us posted on what you find.

parkmanaa · Post by **parkmanaa** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:20 am

Thanks again, JD440ICD2006

We will check some of the points you listed.
I am beginning to suspect the fuel pump, although the missing restrictor on line going back to the fuel tank is also suspect.

Hate to be a nuisance, but one more quick question:
Does the fuel pump put out steady stream of diesel, or is it pulsating?
This one is pulsating.

Thanks.
Phil

JD440ICD2006 · Post by **JD440ICD2006** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:26 am

I honestly have not had a line open while mine was running so I cannot answer that. Maybe someone else can.
I do know that the running pressure from the pump should be between 50 and 70 PSI at 1800 RPM. It will pump about 1/2 gallon a minute at 1200 RPM.
Right now, I am leaning toward a fuel pump issue. The restrictor is important tough so I would find or rig one.

caribcanuck · Post by **caribcanuck** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:33 am

I cant say on the 2-53 but on 3-53 and 4-53t that ive put in trucks or the larger 71 series the fuel flow has alway been steady . its a gear type fuel pump i would make sure the restrictor is definately in place . they can hard to tell as some just look like regular elbows but if you look closely you can see a smaller opening than normal typically on the threaded portion.i would look for a fuel leak on the intake side if its pulsating sounds like air is getting in somewhere.

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:34 pm

the fuel pump is just like a engine oil pump (gear type) on my 6v53 the seal on the fuel pump drive shaft (input) was bad allowing air in it ran like crap put new seal in and ran like new.... the flow should be steady air could make it pulsate....i agree that you need a restrictor so you will have fuel pressure to the injectors

Post by **Lavoy** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:52 am

Rebuilt injectors should be available in short order from any Detroit dealer. I can get them, but your local shop might even have them on hand.
Lavoy

whiteclipse16 · Post by **whiteclipse16** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:40 am

I called my local DD dealer and they told me $89 ea. for a rebuilt injector, plus you have to give them your old ones for cores.

Can anyone elaborate on this "restrictor." From reading the manual it sounds like it is just one of the fittings, not an actual piece that goes in the line.
"A restricted fitting in the return fuel manifold...."
It sounds like it could also be in the head or injector itself.

caribcanuck · Post by **caribcanuck** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:03 am

its typically a brass fitting that goes on the back of the cylinder head in the fuel return. Externally looks the same a a regular fiitting but when removed if you look at the male end of the fitting you will that it was a solid centre drilled to a smaller opening than normal hence the name restrictor.

Randy

JD440ICD2006 · Post by **JD440ICD2006** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:35 am

Press your DD dealer on that price, it is about $5.00 or so high.

The restritor is not in the injectors nor inside the head. It is a special elbow fitting that is smaller on the inside. Not sure where you could find one, maybe an old JD dealer may have them laying around.
Check with Lavoy first, never know what he can come up with.

caribcanuck · Post by **caribcanuck** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:16 am

hmmmm every detroit ive ever worked on in the past 30 yrs including the ones while in the military the restrictor was a brass elbow that threaded into the fuel return gallery on the rear of the cyl head. ive worked on everything from 3-53 to 16 V71 once removed its very easy to see which elbow is the restrictor.

JD440ICD2006 · Post by **JD440ICD2006** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:29 pm

Clarification, when I said the restrictor is not "in the head", I meant literally not inside where the injectors are located.
It is indeed the elbow coming out of the right side that connects to the fuel return line back to the fuel tank.

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440 ICD Engine shutting down.

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