black smoke and no power on jd 440 icd

frozendozer · Post by **frozendozer** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:36 pm

I was pulling logs out of the bush with my old jd 440icd, like I have done many times. Everything was going well and then suddenly there was lots of black smoke and not much power. I stopped the machine and left the engine idle and slowly it stopped running, it never had done this before. I started the machine easily, and once it again I placed the throttle control to the idle position and the engine again spooled down, I started the machine, after checking the air cleaner and making sure it was full of oil. both appeared fine,
The starting process is for me to advance the throttle to max setting, start the engine and then slip it to low speed idle. When I start the engine, there is lots of black smoke and the engine starts, however after I release the starter, the engine slowly stops running.

The problem occurred suddenly, however I noticed it has been harder to start the machine in cold weather and been using lots of fuel.

what you think

gregjo1948 · Post by **gregjo1948** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:58 am

Black smoke--Too much fuel or too little air. Worn out injectors but, that doesn't happen fast.Perhaps faulty blower.

frozendozer · Post by **frozendozer** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:52 am

if the blower was faulty, would there not be some indication, such as noise, some bangs or squeaks. The machine was running great when I got it, and I did have to repair the blower when i first acquired the beast. I have a spare blower, from a donor machine I was able to acquire, perhaps I should replace that, before I change injectors.

When I repaired the blower, it did not look like there was many things that could go wrong. When I repaired it, it was because some water entered into the blower, froze, and cracked one of the rotors.

Perhaps a break in the gasket, between the block and blower

Post by **Lavoy** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:12 am

I would replace the fuel filter and verify that one of the lines to or from the fuel filter is not collapsing. Been there, done that, exact same result as you are having. Do NOT go by the outside appearance of the hoses, when they get old, they collapse internally. Also check the flow from the tank and make sure there is no restriction of any sort.
Second thought is fuel pump, but do the filter and lines first. Then if it still does it, pull the return line and make sure you have adequate return flow from the fuel pump. If so, you are going to have to dig further.
I would highly doubt injectors, if none of the above fixes it, I would look at all linkages, governor, etc.
Lavoy

gregjo1948 · Post by **gregjo1948** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:30 pm

Lavoy wrote:I would replace the fuel filter and verify that one of the lines to or from the fuel filter is not collapsing. Been there, done that, exact same result as you are having. Do NOT go by the outside appearance of the hoses, when they get old, they collapse internally. Also check the flow from the tank and make sure there is no restriction of any sort.
Second thought is fuel pump, but do the filter and lines first. Then if it still does it, pull the return line and make sure you have adequate return flow from the fuel pump. If so, you are going to have to dig further.
I would highly doubt injectors, if none of the above fixes it, I would look at all linkages, governor, etc.
Lavoy

If there is a lack of fuel, would it be blowing black smoke? I'm thinking too much fuel and not enough air.

Post by **Lavoy** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:25 pm

Yes, that would be conventional wisdom, but Detroit's can be unconventional. If the blower is puked to the point it is not building pressure, then I would guess it would lock up. If it has blown a seal, the engine would run away, if excess fuel from the injectors, the engine would run away. This is why I suggested checking for lack of fuel. Seems odd I know, but easy quick fix for the most part, and cheap even if it doesn't fix the problem, it will at least eliminate it.
Lavoy

Stan Disbrow · Post by **Stan Disbrow** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:24 pm

Hi,

If the fuel is restricted, the Detroits tend to inject too little too late in the cycle and then they blow black smoke. The black comes from poor combustion of what little fuel makes it thru. The blower makes sure it isn't burning well. Sometimes, the fuel drops fly out like little meteors and set the hayfield on fire (my main use of a 2-53 was on a 435 haying).

As noted, unconventional. But then, the entire Detroit design is unconventional.

Stan

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:49 pm

I have a nickname for Stan .............Double post Stan LOL

Post by **Lavoy** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:24 pm

Okay, for those that don't know what is going on, Stan had double posted. I saw his double post and deleted it before I saw JT's post, DOH!
Lavoy

Stan Disbrow · Post by **Stan Disbrow** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:26 pm

Hi,

I only posted once. I did edit it right after - added the part when that 435 decided to set the hayfield on fire.

I see only one post, though.

Oh! Now I see Lavoy's post about deleting my double post. And....I am editing this one to say so....did it make another double??

Stan

Stan Disbrow · Post by **Stan Disbrow** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:28 pm

Hi,

Nope. At least, I only see one!

Stan

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:36 pm

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

gregjo1948 · Post by **gregjo1948** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:43 am

Stan Disbrow wrote:Hi,

If the fuel is restricted, the Detroits tend to inject too little too late in the cycle and then they blow black smoke. The black comes from poor combustion of what little fuel makes it thru. The blower makes sure it isn't burning well. Sometimes, the fuel drops fly out like little meteors and set the hayfield on fire (my main use of a 2-53 was on a 435 haying).

As noted, unconventional. But then, the entire Detroit design is unconventional.

Stan

Thanks Stan and Lavoy! I just got schooled on the 2 stroke Detroit! gregjo1948

Stan Disbrow · Post by **Stan Disbrow** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:50 am

Hi,

I suppose I should explain a bit more. That time the 435 set the field on fire, it was a fuel hose that deteriorated inside and made a blockage.

So, the injectors only got a little fuel, and so they didn't spray. More like dribbled at the end of their stroke. So, the drops are large and so burn poorly.

Then, the piston uncovers the port holes in the sleeve. So the blower makes the big drops of fuel fly out the stack. Fly much faster than a 4-stroke diesel would.

Hence, little liquid meteors landing in dry grass. Not Good!

Fortunately, I was able to run around and boot stomp the fire out before it got out of hand. And, the smoke told everyone else around that something had gone wrong.

Stan

gregjo1948 · Post by **gregjo1948** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:11 am

Stan Disbrow wrote:Hi,

I suppose I should explain a bit more. That time the 435 set the field on fire, it was a fuel hose that deteriorated inside and made a blockage.

So, the injectors only got a little fuel, and so they didn't spray. More like dribbled at the end of their stroke. So, the drops are large and so burn poorly.

Then, the piston uncovers the port holes in the sleeve. So the blower makes the big drops of fuel fly out the stack. Fly much faster than a 4-stroke diesel would.

Hence, little liquid meteors landing in dry grass. Not Good!

Fortunately, I was able to run around and boot stomp the fire out before it got out of hand. And, the smoke told everyone else around that something had gone wrong.

Stan

What are the odds? I had a 8V92 Detroit in a GMC General. While backing to a dock at idle speed, I bumped the rubber blocks. It bounced away and rotated the engine backwards in which, caused it to run backwards. It immediately smoked from the air cleaner. I shut it down in seconds and all was well. WHAT ARE THE ODDS?????

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black smoke and no power on jd 440 icd

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