jd440 ic hydraulic pump/hyd cylinder

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dtoots1
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jd440 ic hydraulic pump/hyd cylinder

Post by dtoots1 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:42 pm

I seem to be having trouble with my 6way blade......it is not wanting to lift the blade......there is some dripping off the left lift cylinder front seal but not drastic....the blade tilt works o..k. and angle seems to work ok....it will also push down and lift the front up, but does not seem to want to actually lift the blade.....still having that control handle slipping. any kind of kits for rebuild on the tubes???

Kinda sounds like gonna need to rebuild the pump??? LAVOY, do you have rebuild kit and cost???....it is original type pump,,,not on crankshaft..how hard to get off???? Looks similar to the pump on my wheeled jd40s.

thanks
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Last edited by dtoots1 on Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lavoy
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Re: jd440 ic hydraulic pump

Post by Lavoy » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:13 pm

Look at cups in the lift cylinders first, guessing that is the culprit. I have some individual parts on hand, not kits. Good hyd shop should be able to match up what is in there.
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Stan Disbrow
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Re: jd440 ic hydraulic pump

Post by Stan Disbrow » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:15 am

Hi,

You know, if the blade will pick up the front end of the machine, the issue is not in the pump. I am thinking along the same lines as Lavoy.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: 1958 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350 & Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

dtoots1
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Re: jd440 ic hydraulic pump

Post by dtoots1 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:14 pm

have it off and out to shop to check her out.....also seeing if they have rebuild kit in case i need for other side....will see what they charge as they will advise before they fix it...$50 bucks charge if i don't fix it...

and that is why I posted message as i know you folks are certainly more knowledgable than I !!!!

Lavoy would probably need numbers etc to see about a kit, though i think i have the numbers in the blade manual..
and so looks like kit is number AU 11990 U...looks like 10 pieces in kit
thanks

dtoots1
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Re: jd440 ic hydraulic pump/hyd cylinder

Post by dtoots1 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:17 pm

Lavoy,

Got estimate back today. claims estimate to repair is $732.00....and new seal kit is $50.

my book shows kit is... kit is number AU 11990 U...looks like 10 pieces in kit...do you have?

claims rod and tube are both scored....

suggestions?
thanks
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Lavoy
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Re: jd440 ic hydraulic pump/hyd cylinder

Post by Lavoy » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:34 am

That's too bad, but not unexpected. Hyd shops want it to look perfect, and also for warranty issues. In my experience, these low pressure cylinders with their leather cups are very forgiving as far as the bore, and you have to make the decision on whether or not to have a new rod made. I have had new rods made, and have reused old ones, depends on the crawler, it's use, and the customer wishes.
OEM kit is $110 now, so if you can get the seals for $50, that's cheap.
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Re: jd440 ic hydraulic pump/hyd cylinder

Post by dtoots1 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:46 am

gues i will have to check and see if they also have the cups with the kit???

am gonna try to see if can just replace seals etc....actual leak was only a drip and not a pressure leak.

for $50 its worth a try

thanks

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Re: jd440 ic hydraulic pump/hyd cylinder

Post by Lavoy » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:32 pm

Make sure to do the cups too, that is what breaks and bypasses the oil so it won't lift.
I usually hone the cylinder with a regular engine cylinder hone, that will know down any high spots. Same with the ram, if there is an obvious nick that might be sharp, carefully smooth it out with fine emery cloth assuming you are not replacing the rod itself.
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Re: jd440 ic hydraulic pump/hyd cylinder

Post by dtoots1 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:34 pm

Lavoy

will know more probably first of week....they have it apart and showed me both cyl and rod....could see that it had already been honed before and could feel the bad with fingertips....told worker to do best job he could on it and understand no guarantee on it...also told him to order another set in case i need for other cylinder.

worse comes to worse if i need new or replace what is available? and assume would have to have double action cylinder? and what dimensions....dam book don't tell me

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Re: jd440 ic hydraulic pump/hyd cylinder

Post by Lavoy » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:08 pm

Not common dimension or ends, pretty much only option is to rebuild what you have. Rods can be made, barrels can be made, none of it is rocket science.
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Re: jd440 ic hydraulic pump/hyd cylinder

Post by dtoots1 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:15 am

Lavoy and all,,,

well i got it back and the kits do include the cups....now i got to get it on the machine and see how it works....$50 for the kit and they have in stock.
They do all hydraulics.
Now the cost is something else..i don't know general pricing out there...but this cost me $370 and includes an extra kit for other cyl.,.for the rebuild. wonder what all cyls kit fits?

Let me know if anyone needs info.

will get to rest of story later.....aaand that is....problem is i don't have enough 10w nor 10w20 available, which book says i can use instead....now i wonder since tsc has 20w which is iso46 and 10w is iso32 can i use the 20w to fill it?

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Re: jd440 ic hydraulic pump/hyd cylinder

Post by Lavoy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:20 pm

Get AW32 hyd oil, it will be better than engine oil, AW48 if you want something thicker.
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Stan Disbrow
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Re: jd440 ic hydraulic pump/hyd cylinder

Post by Stan Disbrow » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:52 pm

Hi,

Engine oil has a tendency to foam when used in Hyd systems. If it does, then you'll be thinking something went wrong with your repair.....

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: 1958 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350 & Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

dtoots1
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Re: jd440 ic hydraulic pump/hyd cylinder

Post by dtoots1 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:23 pm

so is my 10w from tsc ...engine oil? i assume the 20w is also. So my manual indicating can substitute 10w20 must be hyd oil not motor oil?

thanks

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: jd440 ic hydraulic pump/hyd cylinder

Post by Stan Disbrow » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:00 am

Hi,

You can use Non Detergent. It is sold as Motor Oil, but it works OK for hydraulic. The detergent likes to foam. It is an additive to collect combustion byproducts. Non-Detergent oil is Base Stock, minus additives. If the oil bottle label does not say Non Detergent, then I would leave it out of a hydraulic system. My local TSC has ND in 20w and 30 SAE, but not a multi-grade.

Once you get into a multi-grade, then there are other additives to the Base Stock to perform that task. I don't know of any lubricants sold in TSC that are multi-grade without also having the Detergent added as well.

What is sold as Hydraulic oil also has additives such as Anti-Foaming and Rust + Oxidation Inhibitors. Given that Hyd systems don't typically heat up well past the boiling point of water like engines do, the lubricant needs something in it to bind water molecules so they don't bind with the iron molecules inside the Hyd system.

Now, there are different weights of Hyd oil just as there are motor oils. TSC sells a basic R+O Hyd oil which is heavier than the most-used JD Type 303, which they also sell. Deere themselves sell Hy Gard, which is lighter than their old 303, and then they have a Light Hy Gard which, as you probably guessed, is lighter still.

What happened is, the Hyd oil gets used as Trans oil and then also as Final Drive oil as the years went on. Our Old Iron uses different lubricants in different places, so the modern Hyd oil can sometimes be too light in old, worn, systems. To make things more confusing, Back When motor oil was Non Detergent and Straight Weight. So, it was used in Hydraulic as well as in Motors. You were expected to chase the temperature with oil changes in both systems.

No one used their Time and Space Travel machine to go back and rewrite machine manuals to keep up with the changes. :P

Sometimes, I think I need to write some posts regarding Lubricants and their engineering, but that probably would mean a whole new section to post in. The topic would take up a lot of space. Heck, it probably needs its own site! ;) I am pretty well equipped for it, though. A really good friend's Dad was ex-VP of R+D for Kendall and later Quaker State and we talked a lot on the subject. He passed away last year and my friend gave me a lot from his dad's library.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: 1958 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350 & Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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