Clutch on JD450C

Post support questions about your JD350 and newer crawler here
Post Reply
Mountainman
MC crawler
MC crawler
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:00 pm

Clutch on JD450C

Post by Mountainman » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:39 pm

I'm new to the wonderful world of crawler dozers so try to bear with me if I ask stupid questions.
My problem : I recently bought a 450C and its in pretty decent shape I believe , pulls well in all 4 gears , shifts OK in shuttle. The problem is that the clutch disengages the drive but I can't shift gears with engine running. It doesn't feel like there is much tension on the pedal , maybe just spring tension! Any ideas???????

User avatar
gregjo1948
2010 crawler
2010 crawler
Posts: 718
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:58 am
Location: Newark Valley,NY,USA

Re: Clutch on JD450C

Post by gregjo1948 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:14 am

Are you hearing gears grinding when you can't get in gear? Does the machine stop when you depress the clutch pedal? You won't feel much resistance when pushing the clutch because, I believe,
you're not disengaging a clutch disc. I think you're just activating a hydraulic valve to stop fluid flow to the reverser clutches.
JD 350B diesel w/rops & 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 highcrop, International 404 utility, International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller

User avatar
Stan Disbrow
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2473
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: Clutch on JD450C

Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:14 am

Hi,

The 350 with a reverser has a clutch pedal which operates a hyd valve. The 450 with HLR has a regular clutch IIRC.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

User avatar
Lavoy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 9343
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:32 pm
Location: North Dakota
Contact:

Re: Clutch on JD450C

Post by Lavoy » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:30 am

Engine clutch on a 450 with HLR is only a disconnect operated by a lever or rod, can't remember for sure which. Clutch pedal is actuating a hyd valve similar to what happens on a 350 reverser crawler. If you truly have an HLR "powershift" 450, the problem is not the dngine clutch, it is only a means to connect the engine to the transmission, and is only disconnected for cold weather starting, but this is NOT done by the clutch pedal if that makes sense.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

User avatar
gregjo1948
2010 crawler
2010 crawler
Posts: 718
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:58 am
Location: Newark Valley,NY,USA

Re: Clutch on JD450C

Post by gregjo1948 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:41 pm

Stan Disbrow wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:14 am
Hi,

The 350 with a reverser has a clutch pedal which operates a hyd valve. The 450 with HLR has a regular clutch IIRC.

Stan
I was unaware the 450 was different than the 350. Does the 450 have an inch clutch?
JD 350B diesel w/rops & 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 highcrop, International 404 utility, International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller

User avatar
Stan Disbrow
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2473
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: Clutch on JD450C

Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:54 pm

Hi,

Ah. Both, then. That clears up the confusion I was having earlier.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

User avatar
Lavoy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 9343
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:32 pm
Location: North Dakota
Contact:

Re: Clutch on JD450C

Post by Lavoy » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:20 pm

Not sure what you mean by inch clutch?
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

B Town
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:04 pm
Location: Western Iowa

Re: Clutch on JD450C

Post by B Town » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:29 pm

I'm not trying to add to the confusion. But I thought the 450C had a 2-stage clutch. When depressing the clutch, the first top part is stopping flow through the HLR shuttle and if you continue to depress the bottom part of the clutch your releasing the main engine clutch disk/pressure plate. When you are shuttling between high low and reverse, you only need to partially depress the clutch pedal. In order to change ranges 1, 2,3, 4 you must completely depress the clutch pedal and come do a complete stop.

I suspect the problem you're having is because of non-use. After sitting over winter my 450C track lower did something similar. It was in neutral (both shuttle shifter and range). I depressed the clutch fully to put it into first range and it ground gears. I suspected something was tight because of non-use from sitting over winter. I shut the machine off, put it into first range. I then restarted it and was able to use the high low reverse shuttle. Within minutes I was able to change ranges without any grinding of years. I now make sure that I go out and operate my track loader on a more regular basis. I think storing it inside his also been very helpful through the years.

Take care, Bruce

User avatar
Lavoy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 9343
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:32 pm
Location: North Dakota
Contact:

Re: Clutch on JD450C

Post by Lavoy » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:01 pm

That maybe is what I should have said, but had 2010 on the brain. They have a rod under your left foot that when lifted up and locked disconnects the engine clutch for starting, sorry.
It may be an adjustment issue, but stuck makes as much sense as anything.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

Mountainman
MC crawler
MC crawler
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: Clutch on JD450C

Post by Mountainman » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:11 pm

Thanks for all the ideas , in answer to first response - yes the dozer stops when I push in the clutch.I can't shift 1-4 gears while engine is running , it just grinds gears. I have to shut off engine to select gears.

Mountainman
MC crawler
MC crawler
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: Clutch on JD450C

Post by Mountainman » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:23 pm

If I'm reading the responses from you people that obviously know more than me correctly , it sounds like I may have a stuck clutch. If so , how can I "unstick" it ???? The dozer had sat for awhile before I purchased it . How long I don't know!

Mountainman

User avatar
amos
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:29 am
Location: Piney Woods of east Texas

Re: Clutch on JD450C

Post by amos » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:03 pm

Mountainman wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:23 pm
If I'm reading the responses from you people that obviously know more than me correctly , it sounds like I may have a stuck clutch. If so , how can I "unstick" it ???? The dozer had sat for awhile before I purchased it . How long I don't know!

Mountainman
To add to your confusion: just re-built a 450C with HLR and 4 speed. The foot clutch is for shifting 1-4 gears, The High,Low,Reverse gives you 2 forward gears(H and L) and 1 reverse gear (R) without the need to use the foot clutch. So the shifter is is 1. You can go 1H or 1L or 1R. Same with 2,3,4.
When you depress the foot clutch with engine running you cannot change 1-4 without grinding. 2 causes: stuck foot clutch or mis-adjusted foot clutch.
Remove floor board:depress foot clutch and see if linkage is actually actuating the clutch. If not fix and adjust.
If linkage is actuating the clutch it's stuck.
Back up to a very large tree(2' stump or bigger). Chain dozer to tree at drawbar.
Put in 1st gear and neutral on HLR.
Start dozer.
Depress foot clutch and hold down as far as possible.
Put HLR in L
As dozer goes forward do not release foot clutch. At some point,if the clutch is adjusted correctly it will release.
When it does ride the clutch a bit to clean it.
Back up,unchain and you're done.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

User avatar
Stan Disbrow
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2473
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: Clutch on JD450C

Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:24 pm

Hi,

One issue that can occur with a clutch is the pilot shaft on the trans input shaft sticks into a hole in the engine crankshaft which has a bushing in it. If that gets sticky the input shaft will still turn even with the clutch disc completely disengaged. That leads to gears grinding when trying to shift between them. Part of the issue is you can't get power from the pilot shaft so the machine stops, but then as soon as you pull the lever out of gear things go to spinning and you can't easily get it back into a gear.

I can see this happening on a machine where the clutch isn't used much. Heck, my M wheel tractor will do this in a few weeks when I fire it back up after a long winter's nap.....

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

User avatar
gregjo1948
2010 crawler
2010 crawler
Posts: 718
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:58 am
Location: Newark Valley,NY,USA

Re: Clutch on JD450C

Post by gregjo1948 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:55 am

Lavoy wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:20 pm
Not sure what you mean by inch clutch?
Lavoy
Sorry about the "inch clutch". That's what Ford called the clutch pedal on their "Select-O-Speed" trans..
The trans. was geared but was hydro driven and was shifted on the fly without the clutch. The clutch
pedal engaged the hydro power to the trans. for stopping without throttling down and also it could be used to "INCH" forward or backward
in close quarters. ( backing into equipment ect.)
I can use the clutch pedal on my 350B basically the same way, rather than engaging and disengaging the reverser.
JD 350B diesel w/rops & 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 highcrop, International 404 utility, International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller

User avatar
Lavoy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 9343
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:32 pm
Location: North Dakota
Contact:

Re: Clutch on JD450C

Post by Lavoy » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:54 am

Got it.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest