Steering brake making unusual noise

General help and support for your Lindeman through 2010 John Deere crawler
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Paul Buhler
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Location: Killington, VT

Post by Paul Buhler » Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:57 pm

Thanks JT and Lavoy. I decided to use the gauge as designed and brought all the fingers into proper alignment; I bought the gauge for a reason. From what I see, the 1/8" equates to quite a bit of future adjustment.
I found that all my cheap yard sale wrenches served well since the 1/2" and 7/16" wrenches needed for this adjustment need to be quite narrow. I won't grind down a good wrench, and in this case the
cheaper narrow ones were good enough to get the job done. Now onto the reinstall. I 've pulled the track frame to deal with the carrier bolts and think I have a solution there, and without it in the way, the final should go in easily - famous last words. I'll keep you posted. Paul

EDIT: After hearing some other thoughts and looking at how the pressure plate fingers/clutch plates work with the throw out assembly, I split the difference and set a gap of 1/16" on each finger. If I'm understanding correctly, as the clutches wear, the fingers will come "up" so that there should be some additional adjustment available over time.
Last edited by Paul Buhler on Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Paul Buhler
Killington, VT
420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch

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Paul Buhler
350 crawler
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Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 6:25 pm
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Post by Paul Buhler » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:47 pm

One side done and working nicely. No more slop in the handle or strange noises, and there's a nice quick turning response when the lever is pulled. Followed the manual closely and paid attention to the comment about the potential for the brake band to get hung up during re assembly - it did, but I was able to get it on correctly before causing myself a problem. Thanks Ben for the heads-up.
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The missing sprocket bolts have been installed.

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Set up track alignment using a piece of 1X3 box tube that I have lying around. I clamped it to my centered sprocket and both the top and front idlers hit properly.

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Since my track frames keep loosening up, I chased the track frame mounting cap screws and gained some new threads. I bought some new longer bolts that bottom in the holes and built up the difference with washers. After I'm satisfied that the alignment is correct, I plan to remove the bolts one at a time and lock tite them using the red stuff. I figure that this will make up for some of the missing threads and keep the assembly snug. I can always get to these bolts with a torch to loosen the lock tite if I need to take the frame off at some point in the future. You'll notice that someone in the past screwed in and welded some grade 5 threaded rod instead of bolts. This works well, but looks odd to me. If the longer bolts don't work, I may go the threaded rod route for the remaining holes too. It's not too expensive and seems more cost effective as compared to other options I've considered.
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Paul Buhler
Killington, VT
420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch

whiteclipse16
2010 crawler
2010 crawler
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Location: Steubenville, OH

Post by whiteclipse16 » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:07 am

Looks like you've been busy. Those are great pics.
I fought with my brake band two or three times and then decided to do it kind of opposite of the normal way and it worked pretty well for me.

What did you square your tube with to ensure the it was in the proper position to align the sprocket and idlers to?

My one side is slightly off, but my track frame is stuck beyond stuck to the center tubes. I've thought about shimming the sprocket out slightly (1/8") to get my track running true again.
Ben

Great Grandpa's 1960 440ICD 602 blade
Between SN's: 455,633 - 456,801
Currently Rebuilding/Restoring

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Paul Buhler
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Post by Paul Buhler » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:39 am

Ben: I squared the tube against the opposite sides of the sprocket establishing a straight edge carried forward to the front idler. I then centered the sprocket between the last roll, by shifting the frame left and right until the square tube landed on the front idler next to the center rib as well (the top roll is locked so it really didn't matter towards the frame alignment - it lines up with the front roll and just told me that the front roll wasn't misaligned left or right), then I locked down the mounting cap screws. I measured from the tubing to both the outer mounting caps, The distance was equal, and the caps were close to where they were in the past, so I think things are pretty well set, but I'll run the dozer for a while to see for sure.

As for the brake band, I loosened it up as much as possible, then used a two foot long screw driver to reach down into the housing through the top hole to lever the bottom of the band onto the outer brake face shifting from side to side as needed while bringing the final assembly into position.
Paul Buhler
Killington, VT
420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch

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Paul Buhler
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Posts: 933
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: Killington, VT

Post by Paul Buhler » Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:19 pm

Got the other final rebuilt.
Changed out the pinion seal, clutches, throw out bearing, pilot bearing, brass bushings, steering shaft, and on this side I needed the quill springs - ends too thin and rusty. The axle shaft had sloppy splines, so I replaced it with a much better one - more meat and almost no lash now. I loosened all the adjustment parts and made them easy to use for the re-assembly. I relined the brake band like the other side - it went much faster this time.

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Since I have a five roll, the track frame gets in the way of the final during removal and installation. This side had tight bearings on the pinion shaft, so I elected to remove and reinstall using a hoist and floor jack as shown.
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Once the axle was in the tube, I was able to carefully rotate the final around that axis until it was vertical and then things went together reasonable well with the usual wiggling and pushing.

I also realigned the track frame and cleaned and re-tightened the hold down bolts. The dozer moves and steers well. I'm looking forward to pushing against a big tree to see if I can spin the tracks :D

Now on to the water pump and radiator replacements. When this is done the machine will be good to go back to work re-grading and pulling wood.
Paul Buhler
Killington, VT
420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch

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Stan Disbrow
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Post by Stan Disbrow » Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:28 am

Hi,

Paul, you are doing a good job there. Next time I need to do this, I'll just drop the machine off at your place! :P

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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Lavoy
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Post by Lavoy » Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:36 am

Paul,
I have new radiators available, and now have rebuilt pumps in stock.
Looks good, have fun.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

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Paul Buhler
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 933
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: Killington, VT

Post by Paul Buhler » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:04 pm

Stan: Bring it on. My labor rates are "reasonable". We might be able to trade your electrical skills for my knuckle busting.

Lavoy: Good to know, but I already have a boiled and tested "new" radiator, and I'm in the process of getting my pump rebuilt by a local mechanic who has the required press. Paul
Last edited by Paul Buhler on Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Paul Buhler
Killington, VT
420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch

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Stan Disbrow
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2527
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Post by Stan Disbrow » Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:50 pm

Hi,

Mmmmm. Boiled Radiator! It's what's for dinner! :P

Sorry. Almost 9 PM, just came in to clean up and then have dinner....

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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Paul Buhler
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 933
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: Killington, VT

Post by Paul Buhler » Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:33 pm

Pulled the radiator and water pump today. I sent my "extra" pump in to a local crawler place to have it rebuilt, but alas, after multiple excuses, and five weeks, I took it back and have started the rebuild myself. The manual is very clear and helpful so far. My three arm puller got the sheave off as shown in the manual. I used a 20 ton press at work to press out the impeller shaft and bearing unit; the right tool for the job - easy. I then used a drift to remove the seal housing and unit (I have a new seal, gasket and shaft kit on order and it should arrive in a few days). Between the two water pumps that I have, I'll be able to build one good one. One has a worn impeller, the other has a worn housing.
Anyway, I just finished cleaning up the parts that I'll be using and set them aside awaiting the needed gaskets, etc. Tomorrow I'll tackle the radiator rubber mounts. In the past, someone cobbled a functional and creative homemade shock mount system together, and now I want to use the original design mounts and rivets - more head scratching, and I'll get this done too.
Paul Buhler
Killington, VT
420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch

JimAnderson
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Location: Gloucester,Virginia

420 progress

Post by JimAnderson » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:33 pm

Paul,
Thanks for keeping us updated on your progress.You have done a lot of work to the crawler in a short time.The photos you posted have been great.I hope you get her up before the snow flies.Luck,JimAnderson

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Paul Buhler
350 crawler
350 crawler
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Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: Killington, VT

Post by Paul Buhler » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:46 pm

So after some kerfuffles, I finally got a good rebuilt water pump installed- no leaks. Next comes the radiator - made sure that the new rubber mounts align and are secure, reattach the high pressure hydraulic line carefully, replace and adjust the generator and water pump belts as suggested in the manual, tie in the hoses, check everything twice, did I say check every thing twice?

Fired up the dozer, runs beautifully, no leaks. Backed it out of the shop and made a few turns, everything's sweet. Noticed that the water temp is a bit high, but this could be because I'm running water rather than antifreeze at this point. Shut down the machine in a good spot to pressure wash and clean it up before I move on to the next tasks.

That's when I noticed that I had forgotten to install the fan blade. There it sits in all its glory laughing at me. What a pain; four bolts, 5 minutes max, and now I have to backtrack and finish the job correctly. At least I only have water in the system - a good coolant flushing is part of the plan, but I sure hate it when something like this occurs. At least it won't cost me anything to make this fix.
The joys of wrenching :)
Paul Buhler
Killington, VT
420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch

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notmeu
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Post by notmeu » Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:15 pm

Hello Paul, did you use a adhesive along with the brass rivets when you re-lined your brake bands? If you did, what adhesive did you use?
1956 JD420, gearmatic 8a winch, custom 6 way blade and FOPS.

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Paul Buhler
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Location: Killington, VT

Post by Paul Buhler » Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:49 pm

No adhesive used. None used originally, and when I considered the design, the band contacts both the drum and the steel brake banding causing friction on both surfaces so the rivets and their heads keep the banding aligned so it can do its job, and I felt that adhesive was unneeded.
No adhesive also means future replacements can be done more easily. JMO.
The machinist did use an epoxy adhesive on my winch clutch since that band had no rivets originally.
Last edited by Paul Buhler on Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Paul Buhler
Killington, VT
420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch

whiteclipse16
2010 crawler
2010 crawler
Posts: 620
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:02 am
Location: Steubenville, OH

Post by whiteclipse16 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:20 am

At least you got it back up and running again and the fan is a fairly simple fix.

I was told that straight water actually cools the best. Maybe I was misinformed.
Ben

Great Grandpa's 1960 440ICD 602 blade
Between SN's: 455,633 - 456,801
Currently Rebuilding/Restoring

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