440 reverser

[gregjo1948]

I saw a 440 loader/ backhoe on rubber on craigslist and the guy claims it has a hydraulic reverser. I didn't think they were offered until the 1010/2010 models came out. Am I right? He said he doesn't have to stop to reverse but,that doesn't mean it's hydraulic. That just means he doesn't know any better. gregjo1948

[DukeofDeere]

No hydraulic reverser on the 440IC.

Duke

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Only the Differential Style on 440s. So, if he's just throwing the lever, it will be needing an overhaul. That tends to bend up the clutch disc ears....

Stan

[gregjo1948]

I was quite sure the 440 series didn't have a hydraulic reverser but the guy was so sure, I think I would have had to use the 2x4 upside his head method, to make him a believer.

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

The Problem is likely to be... the fact that the diff reverser uses hydraulic oil. That always has seemed to mean that it is a hyd reverser to an awful lot of folks....

Which, of course, they eventually figure out after they wreck the things.

Stan

[gregjo1948]

Hi,

The Problem is likely to be... the fact that the diff reverser uses hydraulic oil. That always has seemed to mean that it is a hyd reverser to an awful lot of folks....

Which, of course, they eventually figure out after they wreck the things.

Stan

I've shifted tractor trailer tractors without stopping and using the clutch but, I never tried shifting them to reverse without stopping and using the clutch,while traveling forward. I'm thinking that might make a funny noise.

[gregjo1948]

Hi,

Only the Differential Style on 440s. So, if he's just throwing the lever, it will be needing an overhaul. That tends to bend up the clutch disc ears....

Stan

What do you mean "Differential Style on 440s". Thanks, gregjo1948

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

I suppose I ought to cover both older style of reversers.

The original 420 reverser was a set of gears. They were in a small gearbox inside an otherwise hollow center frame. It did the same job - reversed the direction of the transmission input shaft. But, it was a PIA to actually change from forward to reverse as the gear teeth liked to line up way too often. Jiggling and double clutching was the norm.

So, for the Phase III 420s and the 430 and the 440, the design was changed. Now, there was a new bell housing and a new center frame (before, the bell housing and center frame were one piece). Inside were two shafts, two clutch packs, and -at the very center- a steel cylinder housing a set of spyder gears.

This looks a lot like like the spyder gears housed inside of a wheel tractor differential. Hence the name for the style of reverser.

To run in forward, the whole thing was locked solid. To run in reverse, the clutch packs are set so that the spyder gears work, and the forward half of the assembly spins forward and the back half spins in reverse. So, now you back up in all forward trans gears.

And -do NOT ever do this- the trans reverse will become forward. You don't want to do this as any pushing or pulling loads will overload the spyder gears and kill them in short order.

Now, the two clutch packs are made up of interspaced plates, half driven from the center and half driving the outside. There are ear tabs on the outside plates and, if you are not stopped dead when moving the lever, they like to become bent. Bend those and the pack starts changing thickness and it isn't long before one direction or the other, or both even, quits working. I have a pile of these, lightly bent, that Dad saved as they could be fixed in the event new ones were no longer available. Yeah. It was a common enough repair, all right.

Also, this section is bathed in hydraulic oil, so sometimes this fact leads people to think it is a hydraulic style reverser.

Now, the later hydraulic reverser style took over most likely because people seemed to want a reverser with a neutral and the ability to shift without completely stopping. This is one of the tough issues in engineering: fixing one problem without creating one or more new ones....

Stan

[gregjo1948]

Thanks Stan. That was a great post. Very informative. I've had several small JD dozers/loaders but only a couple had "manual" reversers and never had to work on them. My 1010 has a reverser which, I'd hate to have to be without. gregjo1948

[mini kahuna]

I thought I read somewhere about not putting a reverse load on the hydraulic reverser on my 1010 as well, or did I get get mixed up with the "spider gear version" of the earlier machines?
I always wondered why loading the earlier machines in reverse was a no-no, thanks for the explanation Stan.

[Lavoy]

On the 1010, and 350's for that matter, when reversed, all the power is transmitted through a jackshaft to the other end of the reverser via two smaller gears. The thought process is that you are putting a lot of stress on two smaller gears and bearings. BUT, on later 350's, you have no option as there is no reverse, so whether the thought is correct is another matter. I don't know that I have ever read to do this in Deere literature, maybe just a personal preference type deal.
Lavoy

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

If the machine has a reverse gear in the trans, and one needs back up with a load, then leave the reverser in Forward and use the reverse in the trans. Regardless of the style of the reverser.

It was common with the diff-type reversers to put a bolt in the R slot of the shift tower. Just so someone who didn't really understand the issue would not be able to perform this particular screw-up.

Me, personally, I just don't pull a load in R. That is what the drawbar on the back is for.

Stan

[mini kahuna]

lots of times I am in the woods and pulling on tree tops or firewood log works much better hooked up to a hook in the bucket, can jockey it around alotl more.