My first crawler-- a 40c with some issues

General help and support for your Lindeman through 2010 John Deere crawler
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Zachary Hoyt
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:20 pm
Location: Orwell NY

My first crawler-- a 40c with some issues

Post by Zachary Hoyt » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:32 pm

I am new to this forum and to crawlers but I have some experience with repairing wheel tractors of the same era. I've been reading all of the old topics on 40s that I could find on this forum and they have been very informative. I don't know how to embed photos but I have a few in a Picasa album at this link:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1098083386 ... directlink

In May I saw an ad on Craigslist for a 3 roller 40 for trade in my town. I had been looking for a crawler for years and this was the first one that both seemed cheap and nearby enough to be a possibility. We have a small sawmill and I hope to use the crawler to skid logs and firewood out of otherwise inaccessible areas. The owner traded the 40 to me for a wood strip canoe I had built. I didn't have time to work on it over the summer since I was replacing a pole building with a real building and between sawing out the lumber and building with it the time got filled up. I just brought the crawler into the new building last week to begin seeing what I could do about it. It runs very well and the hydraulics work, but only the right track was getting power. The PO thought that maybe it was the steering clutch that needed to be replaced, but I found out that the bull gear splines were completely worn away. I will be pulling the final drive soon and getting the gear out so I can find out if Lavoy has one to replace it. The inner bearing on the bull gear axle is also in very bad shape but the other bearings in tha final seem okay. I was not able to break the track so I disassembled things far enough that I could take it off the crawler whole. I found what looks to me like the master pin, but I could not drive it out readily. I also found what looks like the master link since it has the flats to fit the ones on the head of what I think is the master pin, but they are three links apart. I also found that one of the rollers has two chunks out of it but it still rolls smoothly and the part that does the work still seems to be intact. The tracks have been shortened buy one link and are well past 100% wear according to the measurement I took. I removed the loader on Monday since from what I have read on this forum it it too heavy for the undercarriage even if the crawler was in good shape, and it would be clumsy in the woods. I am planning to remove the hydraulic pump since I read in the service manual that it must not be run without oil. I have several questions that have come up so far and I am hoping that someone who knows more than me will be so kind as to tell me what to do about them. They are (in no particular order)
When I remove the hydraulic pump do I need to put some kind of cover over where it mounts?
Should I try to drive out the master pin, or the pin that is in the master link, or both, or neither?
Is the roller usable for now or do I need to look for a used one?
Is this machine too far gone to be worth trying to bring back to the point where I can put it to use skidding?
Thank you very much for any advice on any of this.
Zach

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pop pop
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 490
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:07 am
Location: chandler, arizona

Post by pop pop » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:51 am

Welcome to JDCrawlers Zach,
after looking at your pix i would say your machine looks good for that model, althou it has got alot of wear.
as for the track pin, if you can get it out, you may want to get it loose so that the next time it will be easier. and you'll know what to expect. it can be pretty darn tough on some.
allthou you could leave it and put it all back together the same way.
as for the chipped roller, considering the condition of it and mating rails, i would put it in the center position and run it till it breaks.
in the meantime find another one and get you track tension adjuster lubed up. or,,, just replace it now.
I think you could run that undercarriage for another 1000 hours but everything will be junk at that point.( you'll have to baby it and there will be problems)
if you start replacing it you'll have to do it all.
one factor is pin/bushing wear, they are probably shot already.
if so the sprockets will be the same.
post some pix and we'll give you better diagnosis.
i would also take the winch and cab off, less weight.
some will argue to leave the winch on, depends on how much logging/winching you do and could be easier on the undercarriage by avoiding "sidehill" work.
all in all, if you want it to be as manuverable as a mountain jackrabbit, its going to need some work.
:wink:
440icd/602/8a,,440icd/831/ripper,,440icd/831/3pt.,misc. 440 parts, i have 5 of these now, but i can stop anytime :cry:

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notmeu
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 373
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:23 pm
Location: Western PA

Post by notmeu » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:26 am

Welcome Zach to jdcrawlers. That is a interesting pulley setup on the winch! I like it! I agree with pop pop the undercarriage is shot but there is still some life left in it, just pay close attention to the track tension, it's real easy to throw a track with the chain that worn out.
1956 JD420, gearmatic 8a winch, custom 6 way blade and FOPS.

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Paul Buhler
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 991
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: Killington, VT

Post by Paul Buhler » Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:58 pm

Hi and welcome. I think the winch pulley is set up like a tow truck's boom would be. Before removing the winch, I'd look to see how the crawler sits on its tracks currently. The blade is weighted forward, and the winch may be acting as a counterbalance. Just something else to consider. Best wishes. Paul
Paul Buhler
Killington, VT
420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch

Zachary Hoyt
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:20 pm
Location: Orwell NY

Post by Zachary Hoyt » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:26 pm

Thank you all very much. I will post some more pictures of the undercarriage later tonight and post a link once I do. I am hoping to get this crawler working at least well enough so I can try it out and see if a crawler is really helpful in the woods. I have always had the impression that it would be but I have never actually used one. I would think that I might put 50 or 100 hours a year on a crawler at most since the mill is just a part time thing for me. My plan (if I can get this crawler into running condition and I find it is handy) is to keep my eye out for a 4 or 5 roller crawler in the $2000 range to keep for the longer term. I haven't gotten into the winch at all yet but I know the PTO works. I bought a piece of #40 roller chain to connect the two sprockets but I have no idea how the control lever works. I have an old winch from an army truck that I got on Craigslist several years ago and mounted on a 3 point hitch frame that I use now behind the wheel tractors(an MF 35 and a Farmall 300) and I have found that winch invaluable since there are places here that are too steep to get any kind of vehicle into. The winch on the crawler had about 180# slab of cast iron sitting on the angle iron frame on top which I am guessing someone put there to counterbalance the loader. If the winch there now doesn't work I may try to fit the other winch instead. I know a winch adds a few hundred pounds but I think it will make the crawler much more useful to me and also will save some driving around. I had thought that the pulley was maybe some sort of an attempt at a fairlead, but that was just a random guess. I am hoping that the long nose on the crawler will be enough to counterbalance the winch now that the loader is gone, but I don't know. The crawler is on blocks now so I can't tell how much the loader coming off shifted the balance point. I will definitely get rid of the rest of the cab, it is just a welded up thing made from old pipe anyway. Thank you again for all of your help and for putting up with my long winded posts.
Zach

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Stan Disbrow
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2894
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:58 pm

Hi,

I can tell you a crawler is a *lot* better in the woods than anything else. And, one with a winch more so. :)

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

Zachary Hoyt
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:20 pm
Location: Orwell NY

Post by Zachary Hoyt » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:08 pm

Thank you Stan, that is great to hear.

Tonight I got the fender and final drive off. There is some damage to each final drive case around one of the drawbar bolts but otherwise this one looks okay. The final drive oil pan was dry which may explain why the inner bearing was missing some rollers. There is a chunk out of the side of the bull gear hub which seems to have vanished, or maybe that was what got punched through the oil pan. I will put some oil in the final drive pan tomorrow and see if it leaks where it was welded. I see that whoever was in this final drive before me replaced some of the cotter pins on the brake band with little bent finish nails, which is never a good sign in my experience. I will read up on steering clutch evaluation and find out what I have tomorrow or Saturday. I know I will need one of Lavoy's gauges to set the fingers on the pressure plate. I took some more pictures of other parts of the undercarriage as Pop pop suggested, and I would be very glad to get your opinion of it. One side of the adjuster has a chunk broken out of it but it turns easily and the other side is stiff but I am hoping to be able to get it freed up. I will need to remove the other fender or the winch to get the cab off, or else do some fairly precise cutting in close quarters. One way or the other I intend to get it off over the weekend. I got a couple of pictures of the winch, and if anyone knows what to do with that little lever I would be thrilled to find out. It seems to move and to be able to be locked into place, but what it does in either position is a mystery to me. Here is the link to the album where I have added the new pictures.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1098083386 ... directlink

Thank you all very much for your patience.
Zach

boler76
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:57 am

40c

Post by boler76 » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:44 am

I have a 3 roller 40c same as yours that I use in bush, it too has a winch on back but a lighter blade on front, I find blade really good for making trails and piling brush, my winch is PTO driven, the lever on yours could be a neutral shifter for free wheeling out cable, does your winch power in and out both? as for taking hydraulic pump off, yes cover the hole or oil will splash out when running, I made a mechanical press to push out the main track pin, have fun with your new toy

Zachary Hoyt
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:20 pm
Location: Orwell NY

Post by Zachary Hoyt » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:58 pm

Boler76, thank you. I can see that having a light blade would be handy, mostly for clearing snow in my case. I will keep an eye out for one once I get the crawler going. I will save the hydraulic pump on the shelf against the day I find something to use it with.

I took apart the steering clutch stack tonight and found that it has 7 fibers and 5 steels. Two of the fibers measured .183, one was .190, one was .191 and the other three were .163 and had red outside edges. The steels were all .90-.91. I am thinking I probably need to buy four fiber disks to put it back together right. The brake band is almost down to the rivets in places so I will probably replace that too depending on the price. I just need to check on why the left steering lever is loose on the shaft and then I will be ready get together the part numbers and send an email to Lavoy to see if he has all of what it looks like I need.
Zach

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