ICD specific parts?

[jackhdn]

The gas engine on my 440 is due for a rebuild. Compression is not too bad but the rear cylinder is about 15 psi lower than the front. Burns a lot of oil. Bigger problem is a rod knock on cold start.

So I've been considering my options. Of course I can rebuild the gas motor. Having the diesel could be fun though. I know where I might get a 2-53 from a 440 very reasonable. Bell housing to radiator. Started missing. Question is do the diesels have many other special parts? Hood? Throttle shaft I know.

Thoughts? The Detroit likely needs a rebuild as well. I'll never run it enough to care about the noise with the diesel and like the thought of a machine where the gas will not go bad when sitting.

Thanks.
Jack

[Lavoy]

Unless you have a later gas 440, the trans will not stand up to the diesel.
I am in the middle of a Detroit rebuild right now, and I can tell you that after this one, I will never do another one. I could have rebuilt 6 gas engine in just the time it has taken me to find parts and people with any idea of what one even is. Rebuild your gas, if you want a diesel, buy a diesel.
Lavoy

[mini kahuna]

I would stick with the gas engine, that is a nice engine and much easier to deal with than a Detroit.
I would guess your noise is piston slap on cold startup, rod knocks don't go away when warmed up.
I always liked the gas models better, not a fan of the 2-53.

[jtrichard]

Loose rod bearings do knock for a short time until oil pressure is built up. piston slap will continue until she warms up ..... A lose bottom end will also flood more oil into the cylinders and with worn oil rings it will use that much more oil

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

I, too, would stick with the gas engine and skip the 2-53 diesel. And, when looking at another crawler with a diesel, I would still skip over the 2-53.

Stan

[jackhdn]

It is a late 440. Has the large 5 speed transmission and later 1010 style final drives. The knock does go away as soon as the oil pressure comes up. They sure are easy starting engines.

I owned a work boat for years with a 6-71. Always loved how simple the engine was. It did leak its share of oil though. Running a 2-53 in the dozer would mostly be for nostalgia and just doing something different.

Thanks.

Jack

[JWB Contracting]

I really enjoy my ICD, but only use it occasionally for blading the yard. It does take a shot of either to start but runs great, very little smoke. It might just be the 2 cycle roar, but I think power wise it will out perform a 1010 or older 350 diesel.

The 2 cylinder gas engines are very easy to work on with few moving parts. I assembled my first one by myself a few weeks ago (420 bored 40 over) and runs great now. Waiting on a few parts to complete it, but at least it's running and moving now.

If I were you I would fix your gas engine and keep on the lookout for an ICD.

[jtrichard]

YES Jason it is in all reality a bigger engine than a 1010 ,1010 is 144.5 CI and 2-53 is equivalent of 212 CI ,

[Lavoy]

No, 2 X 53=106C.I., you are thinking 4-53.
Yes you can convert it to diesel, you will basically need a diesel crawler to part out to do it. SO, my theory is just buy a diesel crawler if that is what you want.
I can do a complete top to bottom rebuild, not overhaul on a gasser for about $1500, maybe including new engine clutch. The quotes I am getting on rebuild a blower on a 2-53 a ranging from $1000-$1500, and the parts for the engine not including injectors, and tubes at already past $1000. None of this is relevant if cost does not factor into your decision, but wanted to throw it out there.
Lavoy

[jtrichard]

YES a 2-53 IS 106 CI but as i said A "2-53 is equivalent of 212 CI" since its a two stroke...... fires twice as often as the 1010 at 144.5 CI .....the 1010 probably has better low end torque then the 2-53 as the 2 stroke has to be kept wound up tight to maintain its torque and HP

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Ummm. My engineer brain is saying that the stroke of a 2-cycle is effectively shorter than for a 4-cycle when figuring MEPs....so, would not that be on the order of 66-75 percent the power of a 4-cylinder, 4-cycle?

In other words more on the order of 160-170 CID equivalent, not 212.....

Yeah. I know. Nitpicking engineers!

Anyway, a lot more chops than the 2-cylinder gas engine, hence the beefing up of everything behind the 2-53 on the 440 series.

Still, for me, I would jump right to a JD350. Oh. Wait. I did! Still wish I had that 350 still vs. Dad's 420.....on the other hand, it is nice to have his old favorite still.

Stan

[Lavoy]

Yeah missed that, I see what you mean. The Detroit is about 100ft. lbs torque at 1200 give or take. We have a 1010 gas, and it seems to me to be about 10ft lbs at full throttle!
Also keep in mind that this is pretty much the lowest HP rating I think the 2-53 ever had, and lowest RPM. I think Detroit specs lowest rating as 36HP at 2600RPM. Seems to me the top rating is in the 60HP + range. Pretty impressive for a little tiny 2 banger.
If you are really bored, look up the 20V-149TI some time. 2980C.I. and about 3,000 HP!
Lavoy

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Well...I know the 16-278 units used in WWII submarines. Those were pretty impressive. Four per sub whirling generators to electric motors. Pushed a 300 foot long, 1600 ton sub at 20 knots on the surface.

I ran a 435 with a 1000 RPM 3-string baler many an hour when a teenager. They did the job, but noisy as hell. Might be why I don't want one in a crawler!

Stan

[jackhdn]

I agree a 350 with a power six-way would be ideal. They start around 5k and regularly bring over 10k here. Not as easy to work on as the little 440. Certainly a more capable machine.

I know exactly what I have with my 440. Since it needs an overhaul anyway I was considering the Detroit. Noisy yes---but simple engines to work on. Lots of them in work boats on the coast. I once knew a boat with 5 natural aspirated 6-71s driving through a common gearbox. 5 Detroits in a closed steel room----that was noisy.

Thanks for all the thoughts.

Jack

[pop pop]

put a good muffler on that Detroit and they even sound better.
you will probably have a good chance of finding one out of a boat since you are located in boat country.
to say the least you should be able to find plenty of parts.
2/53's have 65 hp capability but not recomended.