diesel additives for old equipment
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- 1010 crawler
- Posts: 301
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:08 pm
- Location: rhode island
diesel additives for old equipment
I have searched and read a ton of info about keeping old machines lubricated with the new diesel fuel.
most of the info is quite old now and I am wondering if anything newer is out for additives for the old machines to run on ulsd.
most of the info is quite old now and I am wondering if anything newer is out for additives for the old machines to run on ulsd.
1010 loader
Somewhere buried deep in here is a lengthy post on the subject, but I will never find it.
In a nutshell, pretty much every super duper additive out there with the exception of 1or2 that I can't remember are inadequate to bring ULSD up to the required lubricity necessary for rotary injector pumps. The top 3 in a list of 25 or so of additives that do work were: Soy diesel, used motor oil, or adding 16oz of TCWIII outboard motor oil per 20 gallons or so of fuel.
Personally if you aren't running soy diesel, and I don't really like the used engine oil idea, I find it really simple to pick up the little 16oz bottles of TCWIII oil. They are everywhere, readily available, and most of these old girls have somewhere around a 20 gallon tank. If you are running larger engines and need bigger quantities, it is available in gallon jugs, but at that point, just as well get soy diesel from your jobber.
Lavoy
In a nutshell, pretty much every super duper additive out there with the exception of 1or2 that I can't remember are inadequate to bring ULSD up to the required lubricity necessary for rotary injector pumps. The top 3 in a list of 25 or so of additives that do work were: Soy diesel, used motor oil, or adding 16oz of TCWIII outboard motor oil per 20 gallons or so of fuel.
Personally if you aren't running soy diesel, and I don't really like the used engine oil idea, I find it really simple to pick up the little 16oz bottles of TCWIII oil. They are everywhere, readily available, and most of these old girls have somewhere around a 20 gallon tank. If you are running larger engines and need bigger quantities, it is available in gallon jugs, but at that point, just as well get soy diesel from your jobber.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
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- 1010 crawler
- Posts: 301
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:08 pm
- Location: rhode island
Lubricity article
I think this is the post Lavoy was referring to...
http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... =lubricity
http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... =lubricity
'63 2010 Dozer, '44 Model B Tractor,'65 2010 Tractor, '55 40c crawler, '77 2240 Orchard Tractor.
Yes, I think that is the one, thanks.
Lavoy
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
- CuttingEdge
- 2010 crawler
- Posts: 534
- Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:13 pm
- Location: Maine
Okay, now this is all well and good, but what about us guys that run #2 heating oil for our tractors?
I go to church with a guy that works for the oil company and he told me On-Road diesel is 15 ppm in sulfur, off-road diesel is 500 ppm in sulfur, but heating oil is 1000 ppm in sulfur.
I am thinking if you run off-road fuel in your tractor, your probably just fine, but definitely would be with heating oil. But again, this is is Maine so the blends might be different for our cold temps. I know my grandfather always changed the fuel filter in his farm tractor more often because he ran #2 fuel oil in it and considered it "dirty".
BTW: Technically it is against the law to burn #2 heating oil in a tractor because of emissions, but what difference does it make if you are adding chainsaw oil to the fuel for lubricity sake?
I go to church with a guy that works for the oil company and he told me On-Road diesel is 15 ppm in sulfur, off-road diesel is 500 ppm in sulfur, but heating oil is 1000 ppm in sulfur.
I am thinking if you run off-road fuel in your tractor, your probably just fine, but definitely would be with heating oil. But again, this is is Maine so the blends might be different for our cold temps. I know my grandfather always changed the fuel filter in his farm tractor more often because he ran #2 fuel oil in it and considered it "dirty".
BTW: Technically it is against the law to burn #2 heating oil in a tractor because of emissions, but what difference does it make if you are adding chainsaw oil to the fuel for lubricity sake?
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!
The way it was explained to me is there is no non low Sulphur fuel at least as far as engines. Off road fuel is dyed for identification purposes because there is no road tax charged on it, only difference.
Not sure on #2 furnace fuel, but a furnace gun unit does not operate anywhere near the pressure of an injection pump, so lubricity should not be an issue I would think. I have also seen references to heating fuel having a small tax applied.
Lavoy
Not sure on #2 furnace fuel, but a furnace gun unit does not operate anywhere near the pressure of an injection pump, so lubricity should not be an issue I would think. I have also seen references to heating fuel having a small tax applied.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
https://dieselpartscanada.ca/products/s ... l-additive
Stanadyne sells this in Canada.
comparison chart of their products
https://dieselpartscanada.ca/pages/stan ... ison-chart
Stanadyne sells this in Canada.
comparison chart of their products
https://dieselpartscanada.ca/pages/stan ... ison-chart
450`s c-dozer 6 way, b-loader.
350`s c-loader + ripper, b-loader with winch arch. B-loader with dozer pads
backhoe attachment.
1010 loader with forks for round bales
a few 610 Bobcats. many attachments
350`s c-loader + ripper, b-loader with winch arch. B-loader with dozer pads
backhoe attachment.
1010 loader with forks for round bales
a few 610 Bobcats. many attachments
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2899
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
Our local fuel depot sells 500 ppm #2 fuel oil for both furnace and off-road engine use. I asked and they verified that for me. But, they also told me that most off-road diesel found at gas stations is the same as on-road only dyed red.
All this place did was run a line from their large furnace fuel tank over to a pump next to the on-road pump for the farmers who don't have it delivered. They just use the same delivery truck for both uses. There isn't a large demand for furnace fuel around here. Heating is mostly done with propane.
Stan
Our local fuel depot sells 500 ppm #2 fuel oil for both furnace and off-road engine use. I asked and they verified that for me. But, they also told me that most off-road diesel found at gas stations is the same as on-road only dyed red.
All this place did was run a line from their large furnace fuel tank over to a pump next to the on-road pump for the farmers who don't have it delivered. They just use the same delivery truck for both uses. There isn't a large demand for furnace fuel around here. Heating is mostly done with propane.
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
- CuttingEdge
- 2010 crawler
- Posts: 534
- Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:13 pm
- Location: Maine
Here fuel oil is a HUGE commodity because so many do heat with oil.
Price wise it is cheaper than off-road fuel and way cheaper than on-road fuel obviously. A lot of that is due to taxes. In Maine any fuel used to heat a residence is non-taxable. I ran into this a few times when I noticed tax placed on my coal purchases. A call to the manager of the store took care of that. Coal, propane, firewood, etc is non-taxable...period.
Now here anyway, if you are a farmer and admit you use fuel oil for off-road diesel, they do charge the tax for it...the same as if you bought of-road fuel, but most don't know because sly farmers tap into their tank used to heat their home and fill their tractors with that. Of course some dump off-road fuel into the tank to heat their home and take the deduction on their taxes as fuel consumption. Either way it is tax evasion.
Now I don't do any of those things because I heat my home with propane/coal, but I don't feel too bad for those that do. In Maine anyway, if you have to buy on-road fuel for off-road equipment, there is a tax form to deduct those extra taxes paid at the end of the year, BUT here they automatically take what you write down and cut it in half. Its outright theft, but I could tell story after story on that.
I feel bad because I honestly run my farm very honestly and could deduct wayyyyyy more then I do, so to be scammed even though I am being honest, is often a hard pill to swallow.
But my question still remains, because there are only so many refineries. Granted with such a high volume of supertankers floating into Searsport Cargo Port delivering fuel oil, it is possible that the sheer volume means Northern New England gets its own blend of high sulfur oil.
(By the way, it gets so cold here that if you have an outside tank for your home, to keep it from jellying up in the cold, its recommended that a homeowner cut their fuel oil 50/50 with kerosene). No one has even touched on that blend of fuel yet though.
Price wise it is cheaper than off-road fuel and way cheaper than on-road fuel obviously. A lot of that is due to taxes. In Maine any fuel used to heat a residence is non-taxable. I ran into this a few times when I noticed tax placed on my coal purchases. A call to the manager of the store took care of that. Coal, propane, firewood, etc is non-taxable...period.
Now here anyway, if you are a farmer and admit you use fuel oil for off-road diesel, they do charge the tax for it...the same as if you bought of-road fuel, but most don't know because sly farmers tap into their tank used to heat their home and fill their tractors with that. Of course some dump off-road fuel into the tank to heat their home and take the deduction on their taxes as fuel consumption. Either way it is tax evasion.
Now I don't do any of those things because I heat my home with propane/coal, but I don't feel too bad for those that do. In Maine anyway, if you have to buy on-road fuel for off-road equipment, there is a tax form to deduct those extra taxes paid at the end of the year, BUT here they automatically take what you write down and cut it in half. Its outright theft, but I could tell story after story on that.
I feel bad because I honestly run my farm very honestly and could deduct wayyyyyy more then I do, so to be scammed even though I am being honest, is often a hard pill to swallow.
But my question still remains, because there are only so many refineries. Granted with such a high volume of supertankers floating into Searsport Cargo Port delivering fuel oil, it is possible that the sheer volume means Northern New England gets its own blend of high sulfur oil.
(By the way, it gets so cold here that if you have an outside tank for your home, to keep it from jellying up in the cold, its recommended that a homeowner cut their fuel oil 50/50 with kerosene). No one has even touched on that blend of fuel yet though.
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!
If you have an outside tank here, you have to use #1, we could always get by with #2 because we had an underground tank. But even at that, there was still some #1 blended in so the fuel jobber didn't have trouble pumping it in the dead of Winter.
Lavoy
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
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- MC crawler
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:51 am
- Location: NY
I don't know of a ratio with chain saw oil, they specifically reference TCWIII which is an outboard motor oil.
Lavoy
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
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