440icd cold weather starting

General help and support for your Lindeman through 2010 John Deere crawler
uler3161
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440icd cold weather starting

Post by uler3161 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:12 pm

Hi, I recently bought a 440icd. Engine seems pretty strong and I was told it had been fairly recently rebuilt. It does not smoke and has good oil pressure, so I think it is in decent shape.

I was told it was hard to start in cold weather and that is no joke. I have read a lot of the posts on here and it sounds like different pistons and injectors would help a lot. That seems like it might be a major project, which I would rather not do at this point.

I also read on here that ether is acceptable to get these running. Here is my issue... ether makes it harder to start. I have no idea why that is. I have searched all over the web to find someone who has had this problem and I can not find anything. What I consider a normal shot of ether will cause the engine to crank over a lot slower and does not help at all. After a few seconds of cranking, it will go back to cranking fast. I found that if I just hit it with a very very small mist of ether every few seconds while cranking, it would help, but not much. Is this normal?

mini kahuna
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Post by mini kahuna » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:42 pm

I am not sure if you can install a coolant or block heater....we have them on 3 tractors and it makes getting them started so much easier.
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uler3161
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Post by uler3161 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:48 pm

mini kahuna wrote:I am not sure if you can install a coolant or block heater....we have them on 3 tractors and it makes getting them started so much easier.
It has one. I ran it for about 4 hours the other day. I think it helped a little, but it was not a huge improvement.

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Stan Disbrow
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Post by Stan Disbrow » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:48 pm

Hi,

The ether is burning as the cylinders compress and produce pressure that tries to push the piston down while the starter is trying to push it up. Sounds like a weak starter to me.

Stan
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jtrichard
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Post by jtrichard » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:26 pm

X2 with Stan<< batteries,,, cables,, starter,,, every Detroit I have loves ether.... What are you running for batteries?
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gregjo1948
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Post by gregjo1948 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:07 am

Remove the small pipe plug from the intake manifold, install a petcock, add your ether there as you crank the engine.
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uler3161
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Post by uler3161 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:23 am

jtrichard wrote:X2 with Stan<< batteries,,, cables,, starter,,, every Detroit I have loves ether.... What are you running for batteries?
It is an Optima that the previous owner bought. I do not know the size though. I also have a battery charger on it set to crank setting (which I think is 200 amps). Without ether it seems to crank over just fine.

uler3161
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Post by uler3161 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:25 am

gregjo1948 wrote:Remove the small pipe plug from the intake manifold, install a petcock, add your ether there as you crank the engine.
This is where I was adding ether, but no petcock. I just take the plug out until it gets running. But I do like the petcock idea.

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gregjo1948
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Post by gregjo1948 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:05 am

Spray the ether lightly after you start cranking the engine. I think the ether actually expands in the cylinders causing more, and sometimes, too much compression.
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford

uler3161
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Post by uler3161 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:28 am

gregjo1948 wrote:Spray the ether lightly after you start cranking the engine. I think the ether actually expands in the cylinders causing more, and sometimes, too much compression.
I tried both spraying before cranking as well as spraying while already cranking. Neither works.

It will be spinning over fast without ether. Once I ether it (with what I consider a small shot of ether), it will slow down to about 1/4 of the speed until the ether clears out. If I go a little heavier on the ether squirt, it will pretty much stop cranking.

If I am really quick at hitting and releasing the nozzle on the ether, it does not seem to slow down much, but also does not help much either.

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gregjo1948
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Post by gregjo1948 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:10 pm

Sounds like the other guys might be right. Check out the starter, cables, battery.
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford

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Stan Disbrow
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Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:12 pm

Hi,

Ether always starts burning before the piston reaches TDC. What you want is the bulk of that burning to occur after TDC.

Stan

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Stan Disbrow
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Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:29 pm

Hi,

Try again. It surely sounds like your starter cant push against it.

Stan

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Stan Disbrow
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Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:30 pm

Danged debug mode!

uler3161
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Post by uler3161 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:33 pm

Stan Disbrow wrote:Danged debug mode!
Haha, yeah, I noticed that. Can not use single quotes, so I have to rewrite my posts. I work in the software field and a single quote is kind of a special character when saving data to a database.

Anyway, back to the issue. It does make sense if the starter does not have the power to keep cranking with the ether burning, but I am surprised that it cranks so well when it does not have ether.

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