Rebuild or buy short block?
Rebuild or buy short block?
Hi Guys,
I have a 1952 mc that sounds like a rod knocking. The block has been repaired with epoxy but that really bothers me. Which would be better buy short block or rebuild? I found one company that has rebuilt short blocks for about 1400$ I have never had to rebuild a two banger before and dont really know what it would cost. Thanks
I have a 1952 mc that sounds like a rod knocking. The block has been repaired with epoxy but that really bothers me. Which would be better buy short block or rebuild? I found one company that has rebuilt short blocks for about 1400$ I have never had to rebuild a two banger before and dont really know what it would cost. Thanks
"one day I will finish it"
If you have it out, I would not put the epoxied block back in. $1400 seems a little high for a short block, and they will most likely not give you a core on your block, so that will add to the cost.
If you want, I can build you a short block for less than that, and tell you exactly what has been done to it.
Lavoy
If you want, I can build you a short block for less than that, and tell you exactly what has been done to it.
Lavoy
MC block
Junkman, Th Mc uses the same block as the M tactor and the 40, they have a 90thousandth wall thickness. I had a m with wide front end and we Dropped a valve in one cylinder had to rebuild sure was fun. Love to hear them run when you get them under a good load. and hear each cylinder hit . 2 jdpoper
- DiggerLarry
- 440 crawler
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:35 am
- Location: Charlotte, NC
- Contact:
Just a thought on the rod knocking. I thought I had the same problem with one of my model 40's. But after changing the connecting rod bearings with no improvement, I pulled off th head and found some "peices of metal" imbedded in the top of the piston. Not sure of where it came from but I suspect in through the exhaust, maybe years ago. I removed the material and put the head back on and it now putts away with no problem. I did confirm it needs rebuilding but for now it's running. If it's a hard knock like mine, you might check the cylinders.
What a coincidence. I had the same problem with picking up a piece of metal in a cylinder on my 40C. Pictures halfway down the page:
http://www.jd40c.com/
http://www.jd40c.com/
1955 John Deere 40C 4-roller
I have a 420 crawler and ran into some familiar problems, I hope. Here it goes: I had recently used my 420 to 2 bottom plow my fields in third gear. The load seem to be fine as the tractor has always been used in third gear for such work with no strain. While plowing for about an hour the tractor throttle all of a sudden was wide open as if someone pushed the govenor all the way open. There was no manual throttle control so I tried to manually push the throttle shaft on the carb close but broke it. I shut the machine off and later parked it with minimal use while the engine still raced wide open. When I took the carb off I noticed that I broke the throttle shaft and also THE BUTTERFLY AND SCREWS WERE MISSING from the shaft. They were not in the base of the carb and I thought maybe they somehow must have shot through the exhaust (yeah right) or lodged in the manifold. The machine wasn't knocking as it was running wide open and it appeared that it was running fine other than wide open. I replaced the fly and screws and fired it up with no problem. The idle was good and it worked great for about and hour of disking again in thrid gear. All of a sudden a KNOCKING sound started. It WASN'T a deep based knocking but a higher pitch one. So I shut it down asap. After sitting for a few minutes I attempted to sart it and noticed the engine was spinning around faster than normal and when it did finally start the knocking was still present. I again shut it down with no attempt to move it.
Can it be that a screw or piece of fly found it way to the cylinder(s)?
Valve broke because of screw or fly metal?
Maybe bearings? (please no)
I am prepared to take the valve cover and head off. Do the bolts of the manifold come out easy after all these years or do they normally break off when turning them?
Please help.
joe
Can it be that a screw or piece of fly found it way to the cylinder(s)?
Valve broke because of screw or fly metal?
Maybe bearings? (please no)
I am prepared to take the valve cover and head off. Do the bolts of the manifold come out easy after all these years or do they normally break off when turning them?
Please help.
joe
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2898
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
Well, the screws ought to blow right through the engine, as they're small and it was wide-nuts open at the time. The butterfly plate is a bit more worrisome given it's size.
I'd expect it to get stuck in the intake port for one of the cylinders. I think the intake is smaller than the butterfly. It might well deform during the process, though and wind up getting stuck at the valve. If so, then that would surely make a sound!
I can't see it going past the valve, but then I have see odder things happen inside engines. Mostly racing engines, for sure, but I once saw a mechanic's fender pad go right through a 720 diesel that wound up runaway on it's first fire-up aftrer a rebuild. It was tossed onto the intake to stop the thing, and didn't work. That same engine deformed a 1/16" aluminum plate which was slapped over that intake right after the fender pad came out the exhaust in flaming pieces.
The plate did work to stop the runaway before the thing grenaded, but half the fender pad wound up stuck to the rafters still on fire. That was a pain to put out before the whole shop went up....
Anyway, if I found a butterfly plate missing, I'd surely go looking for it until I found (a) the fool thing or (b) did not find it anywhere in the intake or exhaust tracts and manifolds or inside of a cylinder....
As to the knock and what it is, if I were missing a butterfly plate and then the engine started knocking, I'd certainly figure that the missing plate likely had something to do with the new noise!
I'd just yank the manifolds and head and take a long, hard look at everything from point A to B to see just what happened when that plate went missing.
Oh, and I'd probably find a few things to repair along the way. Like a bent valve or maybe even two if the plate mangled it's way past the intake valve and through the cylinder and into the exhaust.
If you feel adventurous, use a mechanic's stethoscope to listen to the thing running as a slowly as it will run and see just where the noise is coming from.
later!
Stan
Well, the screws ought to blow right through the engine, as they're small and it was wide-nuts open at the time. The butterfly plate is a bit more worrisome given it's size.
I'd expect it to get stuck in the intake port for one of the cylinders. I think the intake is smaller than the butterfly. It might well deform during the process, though and wind up getting stuck at the valve. If so, then that would surely make a sound!
I can't see it going past the valve, but then I have see odder things happen inside engines. Mostly racing engines, for sure, but I once saw a mechanic's fender pad go right through a 720 diesel that wound up runaway on it's first fire-up aftrer a rebuild. It was tossed onto the intake to stop the thing, and didn't work. That same engine deformed a 1/16" aluminum plate which was slapped over that intake right after the fender pad came out the exhaust in flaming pieces.
The plate did work to stop the runaway before the thing grenaded, but half the fender pad wound up stuck to the rafters still on fire. That was a pain to put out before the whole shop went up....
Anyway, if I found a butterfly plate missing, I'd surely go looking for it until I found (a) the fool thing or (b) did not find it anywhere in the intake or exhaust tracts and manifolds or inside of a cylinder....
As to the knock and what it is, if I were missing a butterfly plate and then the engine started knocking, I'd certainly figure that the missing plate likely had something to do with the new noise!
I'd just yank the manifolds and head and take a long, hard look at everything from point A to B to see just what happened when that plate went missing.
Oh, and I'd probably find a few things to repair along the way. Like a bent valve or maybe even two if the plate mangled it's way past the intake valve and through the cylinder and into the exhaust.
If you feel adventurous, use a mechanic's stethoscope to listen to the thing running as a slowly as it will run and see just where the noise is coming from.
later!
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
examine sparkplugs
examine plugs for dings, particles, or metalic looking scrapes,,, they might tell you more than you think... if you like fishing,,, stick one of those grabby-wire picker things in the hole and see if you can get a nibble....
440icd/602/8a,,440icd/831/ripper,,440icd/831/3pt.,misc. 440 parts, i have 5 of these now, but i can stop anytime
Got real adventurous and tore the thing right apart. I examined the cylinders once i took the head off and wouldn't you know that there were two little screws stuck on top of the cylinder. I also took the manifold off and found the fly stuck inside the port next to a valve. It appears that the valves that it was stuck next to was still functioning. Now I had a good day with nothing being broken during the strip-down. The manifold bolts even came off with no oils.
Next step is to get new valve gaskets and rubber washers inside and out. I and going to need a manifold gasket along with the gaskets that mount the thermostat housing to top of block. It appears to be in great shape. I was wondering if the copper head gasket is better to be reused than replace? What is the best way to clean the valves springs and valve side of head? I don't believe this engine was ever taken apart to this point because it has been family owned since newly purchased.
What is the torque needed for the head bolts?
Thanks for any help
Next step is to get new valve gaskets and rubber washers inside and out. I and going to need a manifold gasket along with the gaskets that mount the thermostat housing to top of block. It appears to be in great shape. I was wondering if the copper head gasket is better to be reused than replace? What is the best way to clean the valves springs and valve side of head? I don't believe this engine was ever taken apart to this point because it has been family owned since newly purchased.
What is the torque needed for the head bolts?
Thanks for any help
Since you are asking for torque values, you need a Service Manual, here is one source for it.
https://www.johndeeretechinfo.com/index ... %20MANUALS
You can get it in either printed, CD, or downloaded to your computer. Believe me it is better to have a service manual when working on these crawlers.
The torque is 85 to 95Ft.Lbs., the torque sequence is what is you really need the SM for.
Dan
https://www.johndeeretechinfo.com/index ... %20MANUALS
You can get it in either printed, CD, or downloaded to your computer. Believe me it is better to have a service manual when working on these crawlers.
The torque is 85 to 95Ft.Lbs., the torque sequence is what is you really need the SM for.
Dan
1956 420C with GSC blade
Tools are to men as shoes are to women , you can never have too many !!
Used diesel engines are an adventure any way you look at them !!
Tools are to men as shoes are to women , you can never have too many !!
Used diesel engines are an adventure any way you look at them !!
That reminds me of when I worked at the iron foundry, and when we got done melting we'd drop the bottom doors of the furnace to clear it out. The ground underneath had to be absolutely dry or things got real interesting. We had a drainage problem so we dumped dry sand underneath. One time it was really wet and after the doors came down, the leftover molten metal ran out onto the wet sand and had a clear shot to the roof from there. Fire department had to be called in to handle that one.Stan Disbrow wrote:The plate did work to stop the runaway before the thing grenaded, but half the fender pad wound up stuck to the rafters still on fire. That was a pain to put out before the whole shop went up....
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