Running Temp or Overheated

General help and support for your Lindeman through 2010 John Deere crawler
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krob
420 crawler
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Location: E. Oregon

Running Temp or Overheated

Post by krob » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:43 pm

To start off I apologize if this is one of those topics that is beat to death and I haven’t found it yet.

I have a MC that warms up to 230, which is when I shut it down and let it cool off.

I installed a new gauge replacing the broken one about a year ago and that when I started noticing it heating up. I checked the gauge in water before I installed it.

I know it’s a thermosiphen however should the bottom coolant house be cold and the top be piping hot, with the engine at 230?

I Have drained the old coolant (probably a decade plus old) and filled it with water, and running it a heat cycle and then I am going to drain it and re fill it with a water and a cleaning solution and try again.

I know the manual says 3.5 gallons of coolant is that basically fill the system to the brim or right at or below the top radiator hose coming in from the engine. I think I have heard both.

I’ve never seen steam coming out around the radiator cap.
MC

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Stan Disbrow
350 crawler
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Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: Running Temp or Overheated

Post by Stan Disbrow » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:38 am

Hi,

Yes, they run hot at the top and cool at the bottom. You have to have nothing to restrict the flow since there is only the temperature difference to pump the coolant around. When you get it emptied, take a hard look into the fill opening with a strong light and eyeball all the radiator tubes you can.

These are all-copper radiators, so they can be disassembled and cleaned. If that turns out to be needed.

Make sure you have a vented cap, the originals have a hole in the center, and not a more modern pressure cap. They will run too hot under pressure. Besides, you need to be able to see when they overheat by the stream of coolant coming out of the hole.

Also, make sure your fan belt is tight enough to provide good airflow, and check that part of the rad for debris and bent fins.

The bottom line is that all of it needs to be at 100% to not overheat.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

krob
420 crawler
420 crawler
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:04 pm
Location: E. Oregon

Re: Running Temp or Overheated

Post by krob » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:35 am

Hmm, i will have to heck the radiator cap. Its the one that has been on it ever since we got the machine (like 20 plus years ago), I always figured it was the right one but i would hate to make that assumption. What if i just drilled a small hole in the top of it?

In side of rad looking in doesn't look bad, but you cant see a hole lot.

What about my dumb how much do i fill it up question?
MC

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Stan Disbrow
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350 crawler
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Re: Running Temp or Overheated

Post by Stan Disbrow » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:50 am

Hi,

Oh, I missed the fill up question. Sorry. I filled mine all the way up, then let it push out what it doesn't want. That leaves it at about the halfway point of the hot inlet when it has cooled back down. I expect that would be the case for any of the M models. Anyway that is what I have used ever since. Nominally it runs about 180, but I have had it get to 240 and making boiling noises when the poor old thing was loaded. I just stop right there and let it run unloaded for a few minutes and it cools down.

That is better than the thermosiphon system I had in an old road grader. No noises, no temp gauge rise, nothing and then it spits water out the top like Old Faithful. And, *then* the gauge would rise! :P

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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Stan Disbrow
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2522
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: Running Temp or Overheated

Post by Stan Disbrow » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:59 am

Hi,

BTW, I am presuming that you have a Gas M and not a Distillate (AKA All-Fuel) one with shutters in front of the radiator.

I mention it because one time I went to help troubleshoot one for overheating and it turned out to be running gas in the distillate tank and the guy had no idea regarding the shutters....

You know. They dragged Grandpa's M out of the barn and fired it up. But, Grandpa had passed away leaving the shutters closed. They had figured out the fuel valve handle on the dash, but not the shutter lever. ;)

Stan

Edit: My Stars! It just occurred to me....what in heck are my survivors going to do? I have Old Iron everywhere, none of which works anything like modern stuff! (!)
Last edited by Stan Disbrow on Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

dtoots1
2010 crawler
2010 crawler
Posts: 533
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:54 am
Location: akron, ohio

Re: Running Temp or Overheated

Post by dtoots1 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:01 am

i have jd440ic and jd40s wheeled both are 2 cyl siphon circulated radiators.....the 40s rad cap really is rather loose and does NOT overheat..yakes it awhile to get up to normal operating temp and is my snow pusher so mostly out in cold temps.. jd440 rad cap is pretty old and has a lever on top which appears to be to lock the cap on it did get a little on the hot side after running/working for several hours..

just wondering if i might need new caps on both so i don't get into overheating.

Lavoy do you have caps?

by the way Stan sounds like a really good gauge on the grader!!!!!

dtoots1

ooops!!!after posting this and driving up the road...i remembered i do have a water pump on the jd440ic...cause i do have spare on the donor engine.that may need a rebuild think is rusted inside...on the rad cap if she aint overheating i think i will leave it alone...i would think that Lavoys new cap for the siphon type should fit on my wheeled radiator...considering that anything local would all be for pressurized??? by the way what pressure cap on the jd440?
Last edited by dtoots1 on Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lavoy
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Re: Running Temp or Overheated

Post by Lavoy » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:18 pm

440 has water pump, and is a pressurized system. I have replacement caps on hand, but will not have the lever, that is a replacement cap of a different style.
MC depending on serial number will always read high, the sending unit was moved on later crawlers to alleviate that. If it is not boiling over, run it, the gauge is a false reading.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

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Stan Disbrow
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2522
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: Running Temp or Overheated

Post by Stan Disbrow » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:14 pm

Hi,

Yeah, water pumps came along on the 420. My 420 cap which is original is round, is rather large, has serrations along the edge for one's fingers and has writing stamped in it warning one that the thing is Pressurized. My 1950 M has a small cap with ears for one's fingers, no writing, and a hole in the center. Inside the hole looks like steel wool, probably to let vapor out and try to keep liquid in. It does fit loosely.

Now, I don't know if my M is 'early' or 'late' for this discussion, but it shows 180 normally. Or, it did. It worked last fall but didn't this spring, like all the nitrogen leaked out. I didn't replace it, opting to use the backup gauge - spitting coolant out the hole in the cap. Not that it did. My M is a standard wheel model and used with hillers and cultivators mostly these days. Not a 1-bottom, which is what used to like to overheat it.

I always called my M 'early' based on it having integral cast front hubs and wheels. The 'late' ones have separate hubs and pressed steel wheels. The cultivator rigs are different early v late as well, and mine are early.

All these models were subject to constant revisions within a series. It always seemed like the model designators didn't really indicate a major change except that the 420 got boosted and the 40 kept on but wound up being called the 320. This probably because it was Waterloo calling the model changes based on their updates and Dubuque was working out-of-sync.

My 420c is quite late and it sports a reverser not in the 420 service manual. It comes from the 440. Literally, I think. It is painted yellow under the green. Also, the engine has the right-hand oil dipstick/cap which was for the 430 and 440. The good part is that my uncle sold it new in 1958 and my dad grabbed it when it was traded in in 1966. So, I know its' history. BTW it was traded in for one of the first of the 3-cylinder Mannheim 820's (with a loader). There is another model number which caused more than its' fair share of confusion.....

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

krob
420 crawler
420 crawler
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:04 pm
Location: E. Oregon

Re: Running Temp or Overheated

Post by krob » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:24 pm

So I am running it for the second heat cycle with some cleaning agent in fresh water. I don’t have the cap on and my gut tells me it’s not heating up as fast.

So o did a quick search and this is what the current radiator cap looks like however I see no hole or pressure release unless it just from the slop and there is no slop.

https://www.steinertractor.com/JDS504-r ... FE53BFCF1A

The gas cap looks like this but fits on the radiator it has baffles and a hole in the top.

Could the caps been switched at one point?

I believe a member on her owns or runs a Parts sales business could someone direct me towards his website.
MC

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Stan Disbrow
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2522
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: Running Temp or Overheated

Post by Stan Disbrow » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:45 pm

Hi,

Lavoy runs the board as part of his parts business. Just edit the URL back to the end of the .COM and you will go to the home page. From there, you can click on the Parts tab and his phone number is in there with a parts list. Better yet, send him an email: postmaster@jdcrawlers.com as he has lots of parts which are not listed.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

krob
420 crawler
420 crawler
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:04 pm
Location: E. Oregon

Re: Running Temp or Overheated

Post by krob » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:44 pm

Well, serviced the trans, the final drives, the coolant system, took some track pads off an welded them back together. Took it to a weld shop and had several large cracks that i discovered in the arms for the blade welded up. They ended up plating them as well. Now I just got to get it out of the shop and put it to work to see how she does.

Hopefully new coolant and several flushes cleaned up the issue. I also have a temp prob i am going to drop into the coolant once it the gauge says its real hot.

Thanks
MC

krob
420 crawler
420 crawler
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:04 pm
Location: E. Oregon

Re: Running Temp or Overheated

Post by krob » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:43 am

Ran the MC quite a bit over the weekend, used something that i built similar to a brush rack however with only one inverted plow/gouging thing to rip scotch broom out. Anyway tractor never seemed to overheat, so between changing the coolant out and swapping the caps (gas and radiator) something fixed itself. I think i will swap the caps back to see if it overheats with the caps the way they were awhile originally.
MC

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