440 "power plant"

General help and support for your Lindeman through 2010 John Deere crawler
krusty
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Re: 440 "power plant"

Post by krusty » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:45 pm

Shame on me I damaged a conn rod. Live and learn.

Ordered an overhaul kit which would have been reasonably priced but adding in the new conn rods this better fire up when back together.

Original conn rods had closed tops, newer style and also in the larger 53 engines has nozzles on top to spray oil up under the piston head for cooling. These rods need an external oil cooler. My 2 cyl of course does not have an oil cooler. So once I get it back together and if it runs I will need to find an oil cooler. Grrrrr.

Last nite I got the main bearings in without issue. There was normal wear on the old mains, but nothing indicating poor maintenance or abuse.

Friday nite I should get the rest back together and fingers crossed for a Sat AM startup.

Found some good Detroit wisdom in Southern Ont if anyone needs in the future. Old time diesel mechanic of 55 years.

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shinnery
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Re: 440 "power plant"

Post by shinnery » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:51 pm

I believe you are going to have to find a source of full pressure oil for your cooler. The oil filter on these engines in Deere crawlers is bypass only. I have not studied them enough to know if you can get enough oil out to a cooler for it to work and back in the engine.
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krusty
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Re: 440 "power plant"

Post by krusty » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:21 am

Thx for the tip on bypass filtration. Like I said if it runs the whole oil thing will be phase II. But the use of a bypass filter does explain the amount of sludge in the oil pan.

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Lavoy
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Re: 440 "power plant"

Post by Lavoy » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:37 am

You can have the oil cooled pistons without an oil cooler itself. They will still spray the oil, will still cool the pistons. They were more critical in the engine with turbos and or at higher hp. You are running below Detroits lowest spec for a 2-53 and lower RPM, I wouldn't worry about it.
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krusty
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Re: 440 "power plant"

Post by krusty » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:37 pm

Funny how a month passes by like that but.....it lives!

Well sort of. I had it outside to work on it which was not a big deal per se and then the temps dropped like a rock. I installed the compression rings without issue and thought I got the scraper rings in fine but it was clear that I broke them upon installation. Turns out there is an engine rebuilder near me and all they do is engines for every garage in the west end of town. They were super helpful and one of the old timers rebuilt many a '53 from skidders at his old job. He said the easy way is to have the special detroit ring installer which he had at home. Ordered more rings and he installed the pistons in the sleeves in a matter of minutes. Getting the rest back together was not an issue thankfully.

Had to wait for it to warm up to a balmy -10C and threw a construction heater on the block for an hour. Cracked the injector line to ensure remove the air in the lines. It started right up! It runs only for 2 - 20 seconds at a time. I think there may be crud in the tank or something that blocking the flow of fuel to the filter and hence the deviation and short runs of the engine. I have had similar problems on most of my old equipment I have brought home. Will get a new fuel filter and clean the lines. Hopefully that solves the problem. I had wedged the linkage between the gov and the rack to ensure it was not the gov affecting things and you could see the position of the rack with the valve cover off.

If it is not crud, any other ideas? My next suspicion would be the fuel pump. Is seems like it is just running out of fuel. No other wierd symptoms. Also got a lead on another 253 for cheap but was too cold to go make the trip to pick it up.

krusty
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Re: 440 "power plant"

Post by krusty » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:13 pm

One more thing....in the detroit manual it states the fuel filter is downstream from the pump, but my current setup has the tank gravity fed into the filter and the pump drawing out of the filter. Once it warms up again I will work on the fuel flow confirmation.

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Re: 440 "power plant"

Post by Lavoy » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:56 am

I had the fuel line from the filter to the pump collapsing internally on one that would make it starve and die out.
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krusty
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Re: 440 "power plant"

Post by krusty » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:03 pm

Thanks Lavoy,

Was going to move it into the garage to work on it yesterday but my old tractor shift forks need a bit of work. Why do things break in the winter I wonder????

The Detroit manual says to run the return fuel line into a cup to ensure consistent flow and no bubbles so hoping it is an easy fix. Or at least easy to isolate. Started right up again today. First task tomorrow is to get the shift forks back in action on my old IH though.

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Lavoy
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Re: 440 "power plant"

Post by Lavoy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:18 am

Mine would flow like it was supposed to every time I tested it, only failed under load after working for a while. Line looked good externally, but the inside was deteriorating and collapsing.
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krusty
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Re: 440 "power plant"

Post by krusty » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:56 pm

finally got around to replacing the fuel line, it is better but not long term. I am not getting any fuel return into tank. Runs for a min or two and then dies. Next step will be a pump....to rebuild or just get a replacement? The kit for it seems simple enough to redo. I am going to pop the fuel pump valve off and ensure nothing is stuck or gummed up in there.

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Re: 440 "power plant"

Post by Lavoy » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:35 am

Odd that it would quit to that degree, I would double check that there is no restriction in the tank or something floating in the tank that is covering the opening when running.
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krusty
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Re: 440 "power plant"

Post by krusty » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:43 am

Ya I agree. I took the outlet of the fuel filter and drained it into a fuel container. It drained the whole tank without issue in good volume.

I would have expected some fuel return from the head. The manual says .6 GPM, though even a trickle would be good. I took the pump apart and it seems fine with no obvious issues but reading elsewhere if the seals are shot, it may not build up pressure properly.

Anyways I will order a new pump. Now I am determined to get this running..... :evil:

krusty
430 crawler
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Re: 440 "power plant"

Post by krusty » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:13 pm

Well the not so funny happened today but all ended up OK.

Moved my engine into the garage. It is a bigger 2 car garage. The understanding of size is important :shock: :shock:

Though I should be somewhat ashamed at how many projects I can cram in there to work on at a single time. Tripping is not unheard of. Back to the fun......

Got my new fuel pump this week and installed it last night without issue. Today replumbed all of the fuel lines. Added fuel to the tank and put on a fresh battery. Since the engine has no throttle per se, I had just been using a wrench to wedge the governor up a bit off of the stop position. Keep in mind that the last time I started it, it was outside.

Had my trusty emergency smother board ready just in case something went wrong even though the injectors were fine last time I started it.

Cracked an injector line and bled the system. Tightened back up the injector line. Very quick shot of ether to help it for the first time. It took off like a bat out of heck! I thought it was running away when I realized it was a thicker wrench this time and at full throttle I guess. Panic set in and used my smother board. Did not realize that it had some chips in it and would not smother the intake. Was about to sacrifice my mitt in sadness into the air intake. Due to the crap in my garage it was difficult to walk to the other side and remove the wrench.

At that point which may have only been 30 seconds I could not see a foot in front of me and had to leave the garage due to the fumes. My spouse came out of the house in a panic wondering if something exploded and was on fire. The yard was full of thick black smoke. Fortunately the wrench which had held the governor open rattled loose at that point and the engine quit.

The good news is that it seems to run fine!

Bad news is that the garage door was open and up while this happened so there is a nice soot mark since the engine was just near the door. Oh well.
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