1958 420c reverser project

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gschrader
40C crawler
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1958 420c reverser project

Post by gschrader » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:47 pm

Good Afternoon,
My Crawler has a late model reverser that is on the left side and has clutch packs. We have split the crawler and pulled the forward packs and they looked pretty good but will replace while I am there. Then found a pile of clutch pieces in the bottom of the case and will need to replace the rear clutches. Lavoy was spot on! That's why it only worked in forward and not reverse! Thank you Lavoy!

My service manual does not have this style reverser in it, so I am ordering another that is for later models like 430 and 440? Will I find specs and better instruction for this type of reverser in there? Any insights will be helpful.

The rear clutch pack will not slide out on the shaft like the front did. In looking at the parts diagram from Deere, it looks as though there may be a nut that hold that pack assembly on? If so, how to I get to the nut or am I off base. Not going any further until I get the other manual but was looking for some insights and or advise that I may have over looked.
This is a great site for new crawler fans like me.
Thanks to all for the help.
Gordon

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shugy368
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Re: 1958 420c reverser project

Post by shugy368 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:36 pm

Gschrader, Don't think I can help, mine is a 1956 JD-L-C with the reverser on the right of center,but maybe the principals are the same just on the other side, I can send you my service manual PDF, maybe there is not a big difference?

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 1958 420c reverser project

Post by Stan Disbrow » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:30 am

Hi,

The two reversers are completely different. The 56 has a gear type, lever on the right. The 58 is a differential style, lever on the left. You need the 440 Gas manual to work on the differential style. It isn't in the 420 manual. The 440 Diesel manual is just about the Diesel differences, so the 440 Gas manual is needed for the rest of a 440ICD. And, there is no 430 manual.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

dtoots1
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Re: 1958 420c reverser project

Post by dtoots1 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:50 am

according to my jd440 ic manual...the rear hub and clutch assembly require to be pressed out. the front clutch is removed with the propeller shaft and the differential by using the propeller shaft as well...

there is a 2 13/16 hub nut with locking tabs that has to be removed before the rear clutch can be pressed out.

JimAnderson
1010 crawler
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Re: 1958 420c reverser project

Post by JimAnderson » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:10 am

That 2 13/16" nut is the major pita when getting the rear clutches out.I have searched everywhere and it seems no one makes one.I guess that is the
reason why all but one I have shows chisel marks where someone needed to get it off.I have cleaned them up and cut them down to 2 3/4".At least I have a socket for that size.Luck,JimAnderson
4 430C crawlers
1 40c 3 rollers
1 420c 5 roller
1 440c loader
1 430t tractors
1 IH H
1 3020 JDs
I Ford 3400 loaders
2 IH Cubs
6 WH GardenTractors

gschrader
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Location: New York

Re: 1958 420c reverser project

Post by gschrader » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:17 pm

Dtoots and Jim, thanks for the info. I am waiting on my manual to come. So there is not way to replace the rear discs without pulling that whole assembly......oh boy.....

JimAnderson
1010 crawler
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Location: Gloucester,Virginia

Re: 1958 420c reverser project

Post by JimAnderson » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:45 pm

Have you checked out the differential assembly? There are lots of small and expensive parts in there like needle bearings and special cupped thrust washers.The main cross shaft alone was $180.00 from Deere last I checked.The needle bearings and bolts are probably the only things in there not Deere specific.If you can't justify the parts cost and decide to gut the reverser do not use it's input shaft to connect to the trans shaft.The correct shaft is about 5/8" longer.The reverser input shaft will work until the splines give out which won't be long under heavy use.
4 430C crawlers
1 40c 3 rollers
1 420c 5 roller
1 440c loader
1 430t tractors
1 IH H
1 3020 JDs
I Ford 3400 loaders
2 IH Cubs
6 WH GardenTractors

gschrader
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: New York

Re: 1958 420c reverser project

Post by gschrader » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:07 am

It does look like there may be a problem in there as well though I have not yet pulled apart. I am now considering removing the reverser depending on the availability of the used parts I may also need..
The seals leak around the shifter rail and new seals will not stay in place when you engage from forward and reverse. Looks like someone tried to stake these at one point in time.
Also the cap screw that holds the lever is worn very sloppy and nla from Deere and the bottom of the shifter where in connects to the rail (special pin T10354T nla) is also worn pretty good as well. It looks because there was wear there, it eventually took out the seals, then who knows if it was run without fluid and may have caused other issues.

Any ideas who may have the correct shaft if I decide to eliminate the reverser? Can't seem to find a part number for the longer one.
Also, If I decide to fix the reverser, going to need a new shift lever and a fix for keeping those seals in the side housing. Thoughts?

Thanks for the help!

JimAnderson
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:01 pm
Location: Gloucester,Virginia

Re: 1958 420c reverser project

Post by JimAnderson » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:11 pm

The correct input shaft can be taken from any 430 tractor that is not equipped with a reverser.The continuous power take off equipped prop shaft is
different so you need to keep that in mind.Getting decent reverser components used seems to be difficult.I believe that is why so many have been bypassed.If you plan on pushing dirt long distances a reverser is a time saver,but if you work in the woods I don't think you'll miss it.JMHO
4 430C crawlers
1 40c 3 rollers
1 420c 5 roller
1 440c loader
1 430t tractors
1 IH H
1 3020 JDs
I Ford 3400 loaders
2 IH Cubs
6 WH GardenTractors

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Lavoy
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Re: 1958 420c reverser project

Post by Lavoy » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:44 am

Seals should not be an issue, never seen them loose, so guessing new ones will fix that. I have new pivot bolts, and a fix for the pivot itself. Out of town currently, but did see your e-mail. Will do some digging next week.
As far as reversers, I as a general rule do not own non-reverser crawlers, just too handy to have if you have the option.
Replacement shaft and coupling are not cheap either. Coupling is obsolete, and good used ones are getting hard to find. I will be making new ones I the future, but not done yet.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

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