ignition

General help and support for your Lindeman through 2010 John Deere crawler
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shugy368
430 crawler
430 crawler
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Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 12:40 pm
Location: Monterey Bay Ca.

ignition

Post by shugy368 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:33 pm

Hey everyone, Happy new year hope you're all healthy and wise! Need a little help with my 420-c. Ran fine two days ago went to start it this morning spins the motor fine but no joy, no spark at plugs or coil . Replaced coil /condenser still nothing ? any help would be greatly appreciated, I need it to unload new log splitter arriving tomorrow, HELP PLEASE!! And how is the coil wired on a 6 volt pos ground system?

B Town
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Re: ignition

Post by B Town » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:59 pm

Sounds like a voltage leak. You need to trace the electrical lead from the battery, through the ignition switch to the distributor/ coil. I suspect a broken/unhooked/corroded wire. Take care, Bruce

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shugy368
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Re: ignition

Post by shugy368 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:15 pm

Thanks, I'll take a look at that, but she turns over fine just no spark?

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shugy368
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Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 12:40 pm
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Re: ignition

Post by shugy368 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:16 pm

Also show 6.10 volts at coil?

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gregjo1948
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Re: ignition

Post by gregjo1948 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:10 am

Did you check or replace the points? Is there power at the points? Check the lead/wire coming thru the side of the distributer for break or bare spot causing a ground.
JD 350B diesel w/rops & 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 highcrop, International 404 utility, International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: ignition

Post by Stan Disbrow » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:37 am

Hi,

I answered in the other thread, and said: power runs from battery to switch to coil to points to ground. Usually, when I lose spark first thing I do is grab the points file and dress the contacts.

When the points close, 6v is passed to ground thru the coil primary winding. That builds a magnetic field. When the points open, the field collapses generating energy in the coil secondary. That gives spark at the coil output. The distributor sends that voltage to the proper plug.

You have bypassed the distributor and have no spark. It is probably the points. They do need cleaning with a points file once in a while.

BTW, the condenser is there to keep too much of a spark from jumping at the points when they open. If that goes bad, then you will see a need to dress the points quite often.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

B Town
1010 crawler
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Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:04 pm
Location: Western Iowa

Re: ignition

Post by B Town » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:30 am

Shugy368, I understand the starter and engine are turning over. But the starting circuit and the ignition circuit are different. You have no spark. Re-read the above comments, there is good advise there. Use a test light, make sure you have power to the coil and distributor. If not your problem is before them. If + power then work through the distributor and points. Good luck, Bruce

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: ignition

Post by Stan Disbrow » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:50 am

Hi,

The battery negative cable goes straight to the starter switch. The power to the ignition switch (the ILBD switch) taps off at the starter switch stud.

I have had the igniton position (I on the ILBD) go intermittent on my 420c from too many years of use. I added a toggle switch with its own feed wire from the starter lug to the new switch and then to the coil input. This, because I am too lazy to replace the ILBD switch, which works fine in the L, B and D positions for the lights. Which, I use very rarely.

I mention this because if you are missing voltage at the coil input you might have the same issue. Rocking the ILBD back and forth would make mine work again, but after a few times experiencing the problem I opted to run a bypass operation. ;)

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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shugy368
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 12:40 pm
Location: Monterey Bay Ca.

Re: ignition

Post by shugy368 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:07 am

Thanks fellas, just one more thing , how is the coil wired on a pos grnd ? is the - side to the switch or the + ? And I have continuous power thru the coil , that doesn't seem right ?

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: ignition

Post by Stan Disbrow » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:28 am

Hi,

Positive ground is just that. The negative goes to the coil via a wire from the ignition switch. It is always live as long as the switch is on. Another wire, also always live, goes from the coil to the points. It is the points which connect the coil to the positive side of the battery when they are closed. So, the points provide the switching on and off for the primary side of the coil when the engine is cranking or running.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

User avatar
shugy368
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 12:40 pm
Location: Monterey Bay Ca.

Re: ignition

Post by shugy368 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:36 am

Thanks Stan, looks like it's the points or distributor. SS

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shugy368
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 12:40 pm
Location: Monterey Bay Ca.

Re: ignition

Post by shugy368 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:08 pm

Thanks to all, turns out cleaning the points and a new coil solved the problem, the patient is healthy and back to work!! :D

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Stan Disbrow
350 crawler
350 crawler
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Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: ignition

Post by Stan Disbrow » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:28 pm

Hi,

Might you have left the ignition on? If the points happen to stop in the closed position, the coil stays energized and has a tendency to fry....

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

User avatar
shugy368
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 12:40 pm
Location: Monterey Bay Ca.

Re: ignition

Post by shugy368 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:25 pm

Not guilty Stan, apparently the coil , which I doubt was original was dated, after installing new coil spark was sharp and blue, just had to reset the points and clean! Thank GOD for no electronic ignition, It could only get better if it was magneto :D She 's running top shelf just in time to unload my new wood splitter delivered today ( with forks attached) 745# that wasn't comin off the truck by itself! :shock: Any way I really appreciate all the help here and if we can figure it out I'll have ya all over for barbeque and horse shoes! 8)

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Stan Disbrow
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2368
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: ignition

Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:31 am

Hi,

I am guilty of coil frying, which is why I mentioned it. ;)

Not on my M or 420c, both of which sport their original coils, but on a couple of race cars. They had their ignition switches under covers which ensured they stayed on when switched on. Got excited about a win, killed the engine by popping the clutch while in gear (the race car parking brake is being in gear) and jumped out....leaving the ignition on. Later we pushed the car over to the trailer and winched it on. And guess what?

I like electronic ignitions myself. The best being CDI. They don't break up when running over 8k RPM. Not something a JD 2-cyl has to worry about, though. :P

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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