1010/350 winch

General help and support for your Lindeman through 2010 John Deere crawler
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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Stan Disbrow » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:13 pm

Hi,

That is the part I am now wishing I had paid more attention to when I was hanging around Dad in the service shop.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

Don2018
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Don2018 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:18 pm

Well maybe someone Else will chime in and have the answer. Thanks for your help

B Town
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by B Town » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:55 am

I agree, it would be nice to have a winch. I have been looking and gathering pieces for a long time. I have just recently completed my setup. This is forum is a great source.

When looking for antique forestry/construction equipment, the time to buy it is when you find it. The asking price is not horrible, and the fair leads are worth 1/2 of the asking price in the retail market. I guess what I'm trying to say is you may have to buy pieces as you find them. You have confirmed the critical pieces are present that Lavoy mentioned, sans driveshaft.

Your project may be as simple as installing a winch driveshaft. It really depends on how your crawler was equipped, and the records and people at the factory are not available. As Stan has stated there were many variations on how the crawler could be equipped. I think if you are serious and want to know, you will have to drop the oil, remove the rear cover and take a look see if the pro/winch drive attachments are inside the case. The oil probably needs replaced anyway. If the pieces are present a winch drive shafts can be found with patience and time, oh and $400 give or take 50%. If there is not internal pro/powershaft internal parts, it would be an enormous task to add them, IMO.

After looking over the 3310, I believe the winch will operate with either the dedicated winch drive or the gear-reduced pto. Line speed on the winch would be a lot slower if the winch driveshaft was powered by the gear-reduced pro, but there are advantages to that setup I mentioned earlier.

Take care, Bruce

Don2018
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Don2018 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:25 am

Btown All fluids are to be changed in the next 2 weeks and I do plan on removing the trans rear cover and having a look see. It's too soon to give up! As I've mentioned earlier, I have the PTO Lever on my transmission. When I move it, it feels as if it's changing positions inside in a nice, firm, highly toleranced way (if that makes sense) leading me to believe that there are internal parts attached to the lever.

Your last paragraph confused me. Are you saying the standard PTO shaft (which appears considerably longer than the winch shaft) would work? It doesn't seem that the lengths would be incompatible.

Don

B Town
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by B Town » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:42 am

To clarify my last paragraph, my understanding is there are two possible setups in the trans case: 1- a gear reduced PTO running at 540 RPMs with 2,400 engine RPMs. 2- a straight powershaft sending true engine RPMs. I guess the third option may be no internals, just PTO lever only(doubtful based on your observations). As I discussed earlier, the coupler in the case and the rear bearing in the case are the same. If you have internals you should be able to add a PTO or winch driveshaft. PTO attachment that sticks out the back of the crawler will not work with the winch. To run the winch you must have a winch driveshaft coming out the back of the crawler. The question is, how is your crawler equipped inside the case, will the winch driveshaft run at engine( like it should) to run the winch or will it spin at the gear reduced PTO speed of 540RPM as Stan had discussed or is there no internals to couple the attachments to(obviously worst scenario)? If the winch driveshaft runs at engine speed your winch line speed should be as engineered. If you have a gear reduced PTO internal setup ( with a winch driveshaft out the back of the crawler) your 3310 winch should work, but line speed will suffer and be slower than real engine RPM.

Don2018
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Don2018 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:54 am

Ok now I understand. I'll know when the cover comes off and that'll probably create more questions for me. I'll get it all figured out by the time the winch is sold to someone else. Oh well, like I say, it's not really needed but would create a "cool" factor for our old loader. Right now we snake firewood logs out of our woods with a JD 3020 gas tractor and 150ft of cable. That serves us well.

B Town
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by B Town » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:38 am

what does the cover look like were the shaft comes out the back of the trans case?

Don2018
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Don2018 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:28 am

I'm not near the machine for the next few days but I believe it is just the flat, 3 capscrew cover that's shown in the service manual page 120-15-1

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Stan Disbrow » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:37 am

Hi,

I have TM and PC only for a 350C. I think this part didn't change a whole lot, so maybe they will help even on older variants of the 350.

Looks like the powershaft inside the trans is the same for winch and PTO. Plus, the indication is if you have a PTO lever present, you have the powershaft. That is a simple matter of sliding a gear in the powershaft to engage a gear on the trans input shaft. The 2nd gear driving one in this case. So that is encouraging.

I don't see a difference in the gear, 42 teeth, in either diagram, so the speed for the winch would then be the same as for the PTO. There are different shafts which head out the back for the two units. And, the PTO has a longer, larger and heavier cover. Either appears to just bolt on where the blank cover is now.

When you pull that cover, you ought to see an externally splined shaft end in there. That accepts whichever shaft, with an internally splined coupler, you want to have sticking out the back. I see a different shaft and cover housing for the PTO and the winch drive. From this I can't see how the winch would work with a PTO in place.

This jogs my memory. Whenever Dad put one on for someone, he had a box of bits from Frank, our parts man. That had to be all the winch drive or PTO bits out of the PC, depending what was wanted.

I always sit down with both the TM and the PC when trying to figure things out. The TM has information, and the PC nice exploded views. I find that either book alone never seems to make quite enough sense.

Now the TM says:

The 540 RPM power take off attachment consists of a compact drive mechanism which attaches directly to the transmission rear cover.

The PTO attachment couples to the transmission powershaft which extends to the front wall of the ring gear compartment of the transmission case. The powershaft is coupled to the powershaft cluster driven gear by a coupling controlled by the PTO control lever on top of the transmission case. The cluster gear meshes with the input shaft gears and rotates whenever the engine is running and the engine clutch is engaged.

It then shows a pic of someone holding the PTO output stub shaft, the bearing housing and a longer shaft with a coupler on the end coming out of the hole in the trans case.

The TM says a couple pages later:

The winch drive shaft consists of a shaft rotating on a ball bearing in the transmission rear cover. This shaft provides power for winch operation. The shaft is coupled to the transmission reduction shaft and receives its power in the same manner as the PTO attachment described above.

The drawings show a shorter shaft with a coupler on the end with a smaller cover.

So, in this case, there is only one drive scheme for both PTO and winch and it is 540 RPM.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

Mikeym70
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Mikeym70 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:09 pm

This created quite the conversation!

I posted and forgot about it. On my 1010 machine all I needed to do was remove a small cover on back of trans and slide a short 4-6” driveshaft in the hole. Done deal.

I paid $800 for a complete winch and had to put about $500 into misc parts, including the cable and hook for the end of it.

Good luck with your projects!
1010 gas crawler 6 way blade. New to me 3/2015.

Mikeym70
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Mikeym70 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:13 pm

PS if someone needed this shipped and was serious I could probably lend a hand in picking this up and palleting/shipping. It’s not terribly far from me and I like to see this old equipment put to work.

I offer this only as a service to assist others on this page who have offered help when I was rebuilding my 1010.
1010 gas crawler 6 way blade. New to me 3/2015.

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Stan Disbrow » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:16 pm

Hi,

Yeah, the older machines had the two different speed shafts, fast one above the slower PTO one for the winch drive. Even the original M had two and even sported two control levers. Usually the M used the fast one for the belt pulley. But, then we got into the 350, which is different. Now, I am going to have to look up how the 350 handled the belt pulley option.... ;)

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

Don2018
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Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:56 pm
Location: SW Wisconsin

Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Don2018 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:46 pm

Thanks for all the continued advice guys. I'm heading to Wisconsin tomorrow (probably) and will be able to pull the transmission cover off and see what's inside. I'll keep you posted. Also doing the reverser with filter, engine oil and radiator flush. Also going to pull off the air intake stack and clean it out. Got the steering adjusted properly 2 weeks ago so it'll be sitting pretty.

pondhogvt
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by pondhogvt » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:40 am

Don, you only have to pull the small round cover at this point to look in with a flash light and see if the shaft is there.. after draining fluids of course..
all you will see is the splined stub of the power shaft poking thru the case casting looking directly at you.. it only protrudes out about 1 1/2 to 2 inches.

that is all you can see... if it is there.. once you get a winch drive shaft.. you will have to pull the big cast cover off back of tranny... winch drive will have to be set-up from the back side of this cover.. the bearing and circlips that hold it in place are set from the back side to hold shaft in place..
On tranny side of the winch shaft you will have to install a winch coupler with tension pin.. then when installing the cover you just line up the coupler
and it slides over your power stub.. finish bolting on cover and done... put seal in from outside of cover... the same size coupler then gets put on the winch input shaft with a tension pin.... then winch just slides into place and bolt it up..short version...

In my opinion that winch is only worth the fairleads,, or someone who wants to restore a dozer to original specs.. but not actually work the winch..
it is not a working mans winch.. I did not see the 2 foot long control box in pics.. those were junk when they were new and didn't get any better with time.. get a 3315 winch if you plan to work it.. just my opinion.... Mark
350 loader,350c dozer winch and arch,450c winch and arch,450e winch and arch,D37p komatsu lgp dozer,D85 Komatsu dozer,D8k Caterpillar.

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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Lavoy » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:33 am

That is it, slide it in, bolt the retainer back on, and you are good to go.
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