jd440ic charging issues & hyd cyl issues

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Lavoy
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Re: jd440ic charging issues & hyd cyl issues

Post by Lavoy » Mon May 07, 2018 8:05 am

Not sure I understand what you mean by side port, but pressure has to be tested at the port in the valve, anything else may or will give a false reading.
Flow is irrelevant for now. If you have pressure, you have flow with these pumps. If you get a low pressure reading, then it may be a pump issue, or it may be a pressure relief issue.
One other question, you have mentioned that it is a 3 way valve? Deere never offered or made a 3 way valve for the two cylinder crawlers, so if you have a 3 way valve it is not Deere or Deere supplied. Factory 64 blade used the main valve for lift, and a dual auxiliary valve mounted on the LH side of the crawler for tilt and angle.
Rereading an old post, I think I understand what you mean by the other ports in the cylinder. If the cylinder is leaking internally, you will not get an accurate pressure reading. Hence why I say you have to test at the port in the valve, with a single hose, directly to the gauge. Until you have a reading testing this way, all else is moot.
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dtoots1
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Re: jd440ic charging issues & hyd cyl issues

Post by dtoots1 » Mon May 07, 2018 8:39 am

the answer actually is that the line with the gauge on it has to be deadheaded with the gauge, so literally is NO way to have a gauge in line to read pressure as it flow past the gauge tho mite get a bit of fluctuation at the gauge from initial surge.
got some adapter fittings from hydraulic shop to hook up gauge will check in few minutes.

i suspect the three way is off a 350 or other, is definitely jd


Edit......the gauge reads about 600psi on a 6000psi gauge...wide open..wish i could find where i put the old gauge i took off i think that was a 2000psi,
i put it away for safe keeping...it is safe!!!

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Re: jd440ic charging issues & hyd cyl issues

Post by dtoots1 » Mon May 07, 2018 4:47 pm

well that aint good...sounds like needs rebuild....sooo does Lavoy have any parts to help get what is needed? i would imagine gonna need new gears to make any sort of difference, let alone gaskets etc..

book mentions if pump makes whirring noise it may be needing relief valve adjusted? book shows should generate 1040 to 1080 psi at a bit fast idle 600 sure aint there!

next is the crank pump, i do have a plate from donor to seal off the cam pump and from way my hose are i may have enough length to reach the crank pump and just use hoses to connect? also have mounting plate for the crank pump....have to take rad off to service the cam pump anyhow so mite as well see if crank pump works or have hydraulic shop work on either to see if they can fix, if the crank pump don't produce..

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Re: jd440ic charging issues & hyd cyl issues

Post by Lavoy » Mon May 07, 2018 4:57 pm

Did you adjust the pressure relief to see if it will change pressure?
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Re: jd440ic charging issues & hyd cyl issues

Post by dtoots1 » Mon May 07, 2018 5:35 pm

no was wondering if i should, i assume you adjust and then test to see what pressure reads each time....try to get it up to the 1040?

ok raised hood again and took look at the control valve....we have 6 ports feeding 10 hoses plus 2 for pump in/out....now i do NOT see where there is additional access to relief valve...there does not seem to be anything on bottom of the valve...rear portion has mounting extensions for direct mount handles...opposite to that end is the bottom portions of the activating pistons which protrude, course the backside is mounted to a plate...

so where would the relief valve adjustment be at??? somewhere separate inline???

i have diagrams of 2 different valve systems...tho they only have 2 handles and they both show a cap covering the relief valve for adjustment ...i aint seeing that on this 6 way with 3 handles...

by the way when i did test with gauge....i did not have both cylinders deadheaded...so one was open to flow, once i can find access to relief valve i will run test again with both offline, maybe that will make difference,,,,,

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Re: jd440ic charging issues & hyd cyl issues

Post by Lavoy » Tue May 08, 2018 9:37 am

You can't adjust pressure til you are testing only at the outlet port of the valve. Your pressure reading is possibly false until you do.
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Re: jd440ic charging issues & hyd cyl issues

Post by dtoots1 » Tue May 08, 2018 10:05 am

SO WHERE DO YOU ADJUST THE PRESSURE??

OK JUST RAN TEST AGAIN WITH PLUG AT VALVE ON RIGHT CYLINDER AND HOSE OFF LEFT WITH GAUGE IN HOSE....READS AT 600 MAYBE 700PSI
Last edited by dtoots1 on Tue May 08, 2018 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: jd440ic charging issues & hyd cyl issues

Post by Stan Disbrow » Tue May 08, 2018 10:24 am

Hi,

On the 440IC, the control valve is on the right hand side, and the pressure line from the pump connects to the top of the valve body. Right above the spools, where the linkage from the levers attach, there is an acorn nut. That covers the adjustment screw. Remove the acorn nut and loosen the adjusting screw lock nut. Screw In to raise pressure.

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Re: jd440ic charging issues & hyd cyl issues

Post by Jim B » Tue May 08, 2018 11:17 am

Hi,

Perhaps if you would post a few pictures of your valve and control set up it would help find answers to your questions. It sounds like your valve set up is not a standard 440IC valve arrangement. You have one 3 spool valve and normal was two separate valves.

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Re: jd440ic charging issues & hyd cyl issues

Post by dtoots1 » Tue May 08, 2018 12:11 pm

OK after searching around for this thing, i think i found it (looks like a bolt head Large) and is right next to the input line from the pump, now i deadheaded both cylinders and have reading only from the lift(blade) output from one port for the lift pressure thru the hose..thats reading 600 to maybe 700psi....(makes sense after looking at the diagrams that show it near the input line to valve)

now to adjust the pressure, if i can get to where this this is buried under one of the hose (pipe fittings) which sit right in front of the cap and be able to get screwdriver into it to adjust......do i adjust while tractor running or shut off adjust a bit and read pressure....which of course the damn gauge is clear over to the other side as this side i can only plug at the valve...if i get increase in pressure i need to try to get her up to book value at 1040 to 1080psi???

really wants a socket on it as probably gonna be tight...and no room for leverage.

Well i found out that that access point certainly does not appear to be adjustable....what it contains is a spring right under the cap which literally pushed out and is holding the cap against the hose fitting....so is pretty obvious that it probably DOES NOT have adjustment...now i wonder after reading on internet that self centering valves do not have pressure relief adjustment??? is that what this 3 spool valve is???
by the way the hose/pipe,in the way, actually is the main line from the pump.....of course why not....i may have to disconnect that to be able to push the spring and cap back in to tighten her back properly....
cleaned up the number better and show222627?

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Re: jd440ic charging issues & hyd cyl issues

Post by Jim B » Tue May 08, 2018 5:26 pm

Is the 222627 a number cast on one end section the valve? Did John Deere use Vickers valves? That number shows up in Vickers info when searched. If that is what it is, it appears to be a section of a stack type valve you can add sections to. On eBay there is currently a "pre-owned" single spool valve with that number and a NOS two spool valve with that number on one of the sections, Vickers is on the end of the other section.

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Re: jd440ic charging issues & hyd cyl issues

Post by dtoots1 » Tue May 08, 2018 7:18 pm

could be as i have no idea...it was on when i bought...and yes that is what i found on internet too...vickers.

now i don't know that it can be adjusted...i was able to get spring and cap back in properly...and a pic of this thing with 10 or 12 hoses covering it aint going to help..

only answer/question is can it be adjusted and how....next thing is if it cannot be adjusted i can try my 20w oil in it now that both cylinders have been rebuilt...what is in it now is iso32 from home depot which is sold as wood splitter hydraulic oil...close to 10w oil.

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Re: jd440ic charging issues & hyd cyl issues

Post by Lavoy » Wed May 09, 2018 8:07 am

Deere used Gresen, or made their own.
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Re: jd440ic charging issues & hyd cyl issues

Post by dtoots1 » Wed May 09, 2018 8:36 am

Lavoy,

Problem is i pulled the cover cap off and directly under that is a spring so appears that this is not adjustable pressure relief valve....am certainly; not sure of what kind of valve this thing has on it...and i do not think that valve is the problem....that pump is only putting out 600psi direct to the gauge and other cylinder is plugged off..

only question remains is what parts available to repair and i mentioned earlier that if worn is most probably going to need the gears etc to repair...
The crank pump that i got is indeed a Cessna, and could have same problem, however if it is good and i plumb then my machine back working....however i have 2 donor crank splined shaft...one on the pump is smaller diameter and off a 440 diesel, my original donor gas engine had one on that had larger diameter(off loader) but no splined sleeve with it to match the splines on the cessna. I understand that the 2 different drives produce different results, i think it mentioned the smaller diameter produces greater gpm and maybe pressure...with my 6 way blade will it absorb extra volume/pressure,,,in other words which shaft do i use if i try this pump out???? If it works and i can find parts for the cam pump i can always go back to that.

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Re: jd440ic charging issues & hyd cyl issues

Post by dtoots1 » Fri May 11, 2018 12:58 pm

does anyone have answer as to the spline shaft???

does not appear that valve has adjustable pressure release., unless uses shims under the spring?????

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