jd440ic cam pump

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dtoots1
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jd440ic cam pump

Post by dtoots1 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:09 am

gonna try to upload pic of this..will edit

Image
above shows face plate damage
Image
above is bearings/damage

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Lavoy
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Re: jd440ic cam pump

Post by Lavoy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:12 am

I can't believe that the gears in that pump would even turn. I would have thought it would have sheared the key before that.
This is why I do not sell used pumps, you never know what is inside of them.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
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Stan Disbrow
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Re: jd440ic cam pump

Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:02 am

Hi,

Wowza! That explains why it didn't work at all.....

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
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dtoots1
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Re: jd440ic cam pump

Post by dtoots1 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:55 am

yup , now i have yet to take other gear/shaft out to see what rest of housing really looks like....before i installed this i turned the cam gear by hand to feel how she turned, was turning by hand fine with primed oil in it and pushed it out the pressure line did not feel locked etc..and total try of 3 times for less than minute certainly did not do that damage!!!

B Town
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Re: jd440ic cam pump

Post by B Town » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:14 pm

If the bearing surfaces and the rest of the castings are okay, the faces can be machined. May moons ago I rebuilt my 420 cam pump. New bearings and new gears at the time. Bolted everything together and you could not turn the pump. I had the faces machined and it worked perfect. ~1988. Best regards Bruce

dtoots1
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Re: jd440ic cam pump

Post by dtoots1 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:33 pm

B town,
Now you really got me going......after looking at this situation...i notice that clearance space...especially if i can get gears made correctly..maybe a bit oversize for the damaged area...and have enough material left after facing the front cover...the oversize gear would not interfere with the normal size yet everything would be properly cleared....ie one gear being a bit thicker than the other...tho i don't know the dynamics as to what the bit of difference where oil not meshing in the gear teeth would present, maybe we got someone aboard who know dynamics of the hydraulics?

face cover seems robust enough.....tho major question remains as to just what damage occurred to the bearing bore.

another thought occurred as well....todays epoxys seem to be pretty darn tough and would certainly fill the space required...if a person could face it properly for clearance....

i know best and cheapest would be use a good faceplate but someday those may not be available..

just some thoughts to kick the can around

dtoots1
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Re: jd440ic cam pump

Post by dtoots1 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:11 am

so i got a chance to look at the rest of the story....the gear with the bearing out really took out both the front and back facings...and the front bearing bore....the good one (gear) looks to be fine shape..that measures.19.46 down to 19.42..the bearing one measures 19.46 to 19.41 in thickness with my harbor freight digital calipers..looks like the bearing one could be cleaned up a bit and still be usable. figuring that pressure loss from the facings being worn down would be the most issue, relative to the pressure loss. i know cannot use either front or back halves.

dtoots1
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Re: jd440ic cam pump

Post by dtoots1 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:47 am

Lavoy,
just wondering if you have had a chance to look at my hydraulic pump as yet?

thanks
dtoots1

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Lavoy
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Re: jd440ic cam pump

Post by Lavoy » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:12 pm

Got it the rest of the way apart last night. It has been rebuilt in the past, and poorly at that. Center section has been brazed up and kind of machined out, not sure why. Digging through my stuff for parts, and ordering others.
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dtoots1
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Re: jd440ic cam pump

Post by dtoots1 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:17 pm

do you want me to send the center section from this or the whole thing? machinist is checking the good gear and shafts.
edit.
oops...just checked the center section...can feel a ridge where the gear wore the circumference out, with the bad bearing so thats not good. happy 4th!

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Lavoy
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Re: jd440ic cam pump

Post by Lavoy » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:06 am

I had one, figured yours would be trashed as far out as that one bearing was in the pic.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

B Town
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Re: jd440ic cam pump

Post by B Town » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:55 pm

FYI, there is one nos gear listed on eBay. Search nos cam gear. $100+ shipping
Bruce

dtoots1
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Re: jd440ic cam pump

Post by dtoots1 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:53 am

ok, so now that Lavoy has my last pump, i have been going over everything can remember about the circumstances /happenings.

i checked the pump for pressure again before i took off the suction line, i was not able to get pressure and i had filled the pump and had emptied the oil filter. i then took off the suction line and went to hydraulic shop to see if can get gaskets etc for the fittings, of course they aint got the exact o rings etc but appear close, so while pump is still on i replace suction line and have to remove 1 o ring from tank fitting end (had 2 in both fittings) cause won't catch threads, tightened down , but seemed to bottom out, like no rubber resistance. so i tried to get pressure reading again and no pressure...

i then commenced to take pump off and check the filter, it is full of oil, take pump off and go to empty it out and get only couple ounces out of it and get sent to Lavoy....now that it is on its way, i realize that was telling me that i definitely have an air leak in the suction line and should have checked again before i sent it...hopefully Lavoy able to get a good pump together and has the proper gaskets for both ends of the suction line. i do see a line around the suction line where the fittings have worn the pipe a bit after 60 years or so of movement, so i may well need to get new ones made if gaskets etc won't seal. Yeah Yeah i know should check everything twice, NUTS...,just gotta learn the hard way.

by the way that is the only time any of the pumps turned up low on oil..

Jim B
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Re: jd440ic cam pump

Post by Jim B » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:34 pm

By the sounds it appears you believe the suction line is the original one. If that is the case, by the parts book, the seal in those fittings is supposed to be a rubber "bushing" type sleeve, not O-rings. Those are available at JD (see my last post to your other thread on this problem for the part numbers and related info), the actual brass fittings are no longer available from JD. If I was going through all you have with this issue I would get the right sleeves to seal the line. I'm sure you have checked, but the line hasn't chaffed somewhere and developed a hairline crack has it? I have seen that happen.
Also just wondering what and where is your filter? I don't see a filter in any of the parts books I looked at. The suction line, I see in the parts book I have and on line parts book, looks the same as the one on my 430C was; a steel line direct from the tank to the cam pump. If you have a filter in the suction line the parts books aren't right. Would you post a photo or two of your set up and the fittings?

dtoots1
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Re: jd440ic cam pump

Post by dtoots1 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:40 pm

will get a couple photos and get em posted...will add then here thru edit !!

the filter was already added to the suction line...so that begs the question...where did my oil go from the pump? cause the filter was empty and i had filled the pump.
see handmade ring by p.o.
Image
see line worn in pipe
Image
compression fitting w/hydr. shop o rings
Image
suction line w/filter from tank
Image
Last edited by dtoots1 on Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:24 am, edited 4 times in total.

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