Getting a 2 cylinder to burn cleaner?

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groo

Getting a 2 cylinder to burn cleaner?

Post by groo » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:24 pm

My eyes are still burning hours after my seat time in my 420c is over.
Any ideas on burning more of the gas that gets sent to the cylinders?
Anyone try a higher performance ignition?

I have a piggyback ignition system somewhere I picked up in the late 90s I might try if I can locate it. The "digger" has already been converted to 12v.

It's probably too rich if I had to guess; based on the quick starting and burning eyes.
I had previously sworn off carbs before buying this. By some odd chance, anyone know of an EFI system that works?
Any hints on dealing with an updraft carb?
Good source for manuals?

B Town
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Re: Getting a 2 cylinder to burn cleaner?

Post by B Town » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:14 am

Sure sounds like a rich mix. Your carb will need adjusted, possible rebuilt. Other issues that you could look at include the ignition system. Make sure the distributor and internals are up to snuff. The HEI conversions have been a good modification. Coil needs to be in good shape to properly light the fuel/air mixture. Good wires, solid core and good, properly gapped plugs.

Other issues that need sorted would be the air intake. Tubes will need cleaned and oil bath cleaned. Air restrictions will create a rich mix.

I have had fair luck buying manuals off eBay, using some persistence. Best regards, Bruce

PS- Last time I checked EFI on two cylinders was outlawed.

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Lavoy
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Re: Getting a 2 cylinder to burn cleaner?

Post by Lavoy » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:01 am

If your eyes are burning, it has to be running horribly rich. When properly tuned with original components they run as lean as any other engine out there. If you lean them out further, they will burn valves, and power will be way down. I would do a tune up, possibly a proper carb reuild, set timing, set carb and you will be good to go. Converting to 12 volts, or HEI or whatever will not have any effect on fuel mixture, that is carb, and you can already lean it out til it dies by closing the load jet.
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Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
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dtoots1
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Re: Getting a 2 cylinder to burn cleaner?

Post by dtoots1 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:14 am

Thanks to all you guys for answering my question before i got a chance to ask it!!!
Mine has been puffing a bit of black soot and acting ignorant about starting,fortunately i had just ordered a tuneup kit and replaced everything but the cap....from DEERE which is the wrong one, but the old one works till Lavoys gets here. Will finish the rest of the cleanup procedures while tis raining a bit and cooler in the shed.
My number one plug was getting pretty good soot on it and really making it hard to start, when usually it starts at first crank, so cleanup/tuneup really does make a difference, AND as Lavoy has pointed out....there is NO difference--structurally-- that the 6volt distributor cap would deteriorate in our 12volt systems--so DONT ask/or indicate for a 12volt cap. (they are out 90 degrees).
i will need to keep eye out to see if continues to be running rich and see what needs to be done for turning the jets if needed.

by the way my jd40s wheeled was doing same thing and needed tuning as well--which fortunately take same plugs and MaDeere sends a set of 4 plugs so happened to work out fine.

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: Getting a 2 cylinder to burn cleaner?

Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:40 pm

Hi,

I find that burning race fuel in my old iron makes a world of difference. Or, at least mixing it half with 93 or 94 pump gas. This modern stuff, even the non-ethanol, doesn't vapor properly in an updraft carb. I use 100 unleaded straight or 110 leaded mixed.

I used to get 100 Low Lead from the county airport but now the EPA has talked the FAA into making it unlawful for the air service shop to sell it outside of an actual aircraft. 110 Leaded mixed 50/50 with 93 pump gets you to the same place.

Yes, the stuff is $8 a gallon, but I find I don't use the old iron enough to even equal what I spend on Diesel in the new iron. ;)

The 100 unleaded is my best friend in the 2-cycle power equipment as well.

Nice to have the old stuff fire right up and it smells a lot better and can be run leaner. Also, no need to go nuts on the ignition. My two are still 6v and that part is fine.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

groo

Re: Getting a 2 cylinder to burn cleaner?

Post by groo » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:39 pm

Oops double tap
Last edited by groo on Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

groo

Re: Getting a 2 cylinder to burn cleaner?

Post by groo » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:40 pm

Stan Disbrow wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:40 pm
Hi,

I find that burning race fuel in my old iron makes a world of difference. Or, at least mixing it half with 93 or 94 pump gas. This modern stuff, even the non-ethanol, doesn't vapor properly in an updraft carb. I use 100 unleaded straight or 110 leaded mixed.

I used to get 100 Low Lead from the county airport but now the EPA has talked the FAA into making it unlawful for the air service shop to sell it outside of an actual aircraft. 110 Leaded mixed 50/50 with 93 pump gets you to the same place.

Yes, the stuff is $8 a gallon, but I find I don't use the old iron enough to even equal what I spend on Diesel in the new iron. ;)

The 100 unleaded is my best friend in the 2-cycle power equipment as well.

Nice to have the old stuff fire right up and it smells a lot better and can be run leaner. Also, no need to go nuts on the ignition. My two are still 6v and that part is fine.

Stan
$8/gal? It wouldn't take too many tanks to pay for an EFI system.
The guy I bought it from suggested a bit of 2 stroke in the fuel.

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: Getting a 2 cylinder to burn cleaner?

Post by Stan Disbrow » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:45 am

Hi,

Well, have fun getting the EFI to work, then. ;)

I suppose you'll have to use one for a 4-cylinder and just hook up 1 + 2.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

groo

Re: Getting a 2 cylinder to burn cleaner?

Post by groo » Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:34 am

Stan Disbrow wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:45 am
Hi,

Well, have fun getting the EFI to work, then. ;)

I suppose you'll have to use one for a 4-cylinder and just hook up 1 + 2.

Stan
I'd use a small engine system. It makes less than 30hp afterall.

groo

Re: Getting a 2 cylinder to burn cleaner?

Post by groo » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:26 am

I'm second guessing the rich assumption. The eye burning might have been coincidental, and I'm not seeing other signs of richness, like excessive sootiness on the stack.

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Lavoy
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Re: Getting a 2 cylinder to burn cleaner?

Post by Lavoy » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:43 am

Adding two stroke oil will just increase the smell in the exhaust, not decrease it.
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groo

Re: Getting a 2 cylinder to burn cleaner?

Post by groo » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:32 pm

The 2stroke oil recommendation was for fuel system longevity. I'm not sure I buy it, but it might make sense if the av fuel recommendation is a good one. I imagine it would help lubricate the intake valves at least.

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Paul Buhler
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Re: Getting a 2 cylinder to burn cleaner?

Post by Paul Buhler » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:19 pm

When I first brought home my "dead" dozer, I found that the air cleaner was fully plugged with goo. The previous owner had not cleaned it in years. Once cleaned, the previously "choked" engine belched chunks of carbon for a few days before running better. Smelled better too. An easy check and if needed , fix. I did rebuild the carb at the same time. Good luck diagnosing your machines particular gremlins.
Paul Buhler
Killington, VT
420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch

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