jumping out of reverse under load
jumping out of reverse under load
This is what I sure wasn't expecting!After rebuilding almost everything, now the reverse is needing work.When shifting into reverse there was no click or snap like you usually get with the forword gears.When I took the shifter housing off there didn't seem to be a detent groove for the reverse position on the shaft,so I machined one in,and now it feels like it locks into gear like the others.I tried it out today and it will sometimes jump out when under load like backdragging but not just backing up,and ideas?This is on the 420 with the 4 speed.
58 420c w 61 blade and 3pth and pto,57 420c w loader,48 D,48 M,Allis D-15 and a Super Duty to haul these!!!!
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JimAnderson
- 1010 crawler
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:01 pm
- Location: Gloucester,Virginia
jumping out of gear
sbarr,
Have you looked at the mating teeth of the reverse gear set.From what I have seen on crawlers with the constant forward and reverse shifting
the teeth take a lot of abuse.The portion of the gears that come into contact with each other first when shifting gets worn away.If enough
wear takes place the gears have little tooth contact and will ramp away
from each other under load.If the detent is located correctly,and the shifter isn't worn out this could be the problem.JimAnderson
Have you looked at the mating teeth of the reverse gear set.From what I have seen on crawlers with the constant forward and reverse shifting
the teeth take a lot of abuse.The portion of the gears that come into contact with each other first when shifting gets worn away.If enough
wear takes place the gears have little tooth contact and will ramp away
from each other under load.If the detent is located correctly,and the shifter isn't worn out this could be the problem.JimAnderson
I do remember the teeth being beveled slightly but really not to bad,but maybe enough to let themselves ramp apart like you said.How big of job is it to change the gears,hopefully this doesn't involve splitting it?
58 420c w 61 blade and 3pth and pto,57 420c w loader,48 D,48 M,Allis D-15 and a Super Duty to haul these!!!!
-
JimAnderson
- 1010 crawler
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:01 pm
- Location: Gloucester,Virginia
jumping out of gear
sbarr,
If you find that the gears need to be changed you will need to remove
the transmission or pull the engine and center tube.Either way,not a fun
job.The biggest challenge as I see it will be getting gears that are good
enough to make it worthwhile.I have a 4speed 430C with a bad transmission and I found it cheaper to buy a 430 on rubber just for the
gears.JimAnderson
If you find that the gears need to be changed you will need to remove
the transmission or pull the engine and center tube.Either way,not a fun
job.The biggest challenge as I see it will be getting gears that are good
enough to make it worthwhile.I have a 4speed 430C with a bad transmission and I found it cheaper to buy a 430 on rubber just for the
gears.JimAnderson
Jim
Well I took off the cover after shifting into reverse, the gears only mesh about half way,and not to badly worn,not as bad as I thought they would be.So after building up worn forks and where the shifter end fits into ,still the same thing.All monday evening I must have had that cover apart and back on 20 times trying to see what was binding,when you shift into reverse you could hear a good solid clunk.The next evening I took another look at it, one of the bolts that hold the center section to the trans was sticking out into the housing ,I put some neverseize on the end of the bolt replaced the cover shifted into reverse,and guess what ,neverseize on the end of the shift rail.All this time it was just a wrong length of bolt that was causing all this grief.I guess someone had the trans split from the center housing and mixed up the bolts or just put in the wrong one,which must have been alot of years ago because of the wear pattern on these gears.Needless to say it was certainly time for a few Coors Light after finding this and not having to start to change the gears.
Well I took off the cover after shifting into reverse, the gears only mesh about half way,and not to badly worn,not as bad as I thought they would be.So after building up worn forks and where the shifter end fits into ,still the same thing.All monday evening I must have had that cover apart and back on 20 times trying to see what was binding,when you shift into reverse you could hear a good solid clunk.The next evening I took another look at it, one of the bolts that hold the center section to the trans was sticking out into the housing ,I put some neverseize on the end of the bolt replaced the cover shifted into reverse,and guess what ,neverseize on the end of the shift rail.All this time it was just a wrong length of bolt that was causing all this grief.I guess someone had the trans split from the center housing and mixed up the bolts or just put in the wrong one,which must have been alot of years ago because of the wear pattern on these gears.Needless to say it was certainly time for a few Coors Light after finding this and not having to start to change the gears.
58 420c w 61 blade and 3pth and pto,57 420c w loader,48 D,48 M,Allis D-15 and a Super Duty to haul these!!!!
-
JimAnderson
- 1010 crawler
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:01 pm
- Location: Gloucester,Virginia
trans junmping out of reverse
sbarr,
I'm glad you found the problem.Persistence has it's rewards.From your
description of the problem I'm assuming that the gears were not fully
allowed to mesh and that they did ramp under load.If that is the case then
you just saved yourself a lot of grief down the road.All in all not a bad way
to start off the holidays.JimAnderson
I'm glad you found the problem.Persistence has it's rewards.From your
description of the problem I'm assuming that the gears were not fully
allowed to mesh and that they did ramp under load.If that is the case then
you just saved yourself a lot of grief down the road.All in all not a bad way
to start off the holidays.JimAnderson
Jim
That is exactly what happened,when you consider that these are 50yrs old they probabaly have been apart quite a few times so the odd part might be modifyed changed or bucksheed up from time to time.Anyway what a relief to find this,I had a M trans hopeing that the gears were the same ,they are not though after pulling off the cover.
Steve
That is exactly what happened,when you consider that these are 50yrs old they probabaly have been apart quite a few times so the odd part might be modifyed changed or bucksheed up from time to time.Anyway what a relief to find this,I had a M trans hopeing that the gears were the same ,they are not though after pulling off the cover.
Steve
58 420c w 61 blade and 3pth and pto,57 420c w loader,48 D,48 M,Allis D-15 and a Super Duty to haul these!!!!
-
JimAnderson
- 1010 crawler
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:01 pm
- Location: Gloucester,Virginia
jumping out of reverse under load
Steve,
If you ever get to talk to Lavoy he can tell you some interesting stories of field modifications on these machines.I think my favorite is the crawler was an oak block being used instead of bottom rollers.
In your last post you used the term bucksheed.I think I get the meaning
but that is a new one on me.I also see by your profile that you are a
machinist which explains the use of never seize to locatate contact.
That beats Hi-spot blue and I'll put that one in my bag of tricks.
If you don't mind the board knowing where are you located?
JimAnderson
If you ever get to talk to Lavoy he can tell you some interesting stories of field modifications on these machines.I think my favorite is the crawler was an oak block being used instead of bottom rollers.
In your last post you used the term bucksheed.I think I get the meaning
but that is a new one on me.I also see by your profile that you are a
machinist which explains the use of never seize to locatate contact.
That beats Hi-spot blue and I'll put that one in my bag of tricks.
If you don't mind the board knowing where are you located?
JimAnderson
Jim
The term bucksheed is a word that can be used alot with these older machines,not always meaning bad though just a little rough around the edges,like when you use a can opener to increase the hole for the muffler in the hood of a 420.It works but what a mess to look at,(that is the way we got it)Just painted the shifter cover assembly and new bolts for the hood tonight along with setting up the steering clutches,one side went good the other was a real &*#@ .Located near Ottawa Ontario called Pakenham, a real John Deere area,I bet all the farm machinary here is 95%John Deere and proud of it.Hope everyone is having a good thanksgiving .
Steve
The term bucksheed is a word that can be used alot with these older machines,not always meaning bad though just a little rough around the edges,like when you use a can opener to increase the hole for the muffler in the hood of a 420.It works but what a mess to look at,(that is the way we got it)Just painted the shifter cover assembly and new bolts for the hood tonight along with setting up the steering clutches,one side went good the other was a real &*#@ .Located near Ottawa Ontario called Pakenham, a real John Deere area,I bet all the farm machinary here is 95%John Deere and proud of it.Hope everyone is having a good thanksgiving .
Steve
58 420c w 61 blade and 3pth and pto,57 420c w loader,48 D,48 M,Allis D-15 and a Super Duty to haul these!!!!
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