420c not shifting into gear

General help and support for your Lindeman through 2010 John Deere crawler
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420CrawlerHoller
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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:15 pm

no, but we did change the distance of free play from pretty wide to what seemed like a bottoming out of the cam.
1957 420C Crawler / 1950(?) Massey Fergussen Tractor / 1952 International Harvester TD-24

dtoots1
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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by dtoots1 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:27 am

using the borescope while moving the clutch pedal, can you see if the pressure plate moves at all? how much do the pivots move inside the housing with the borescope? is throwout sliding up to pressure plate any? if everything moves to pressure plate and no release, probable pressure plate bad.
my pressure plate on steering had collapsed.

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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:17 pm

it was hard to tell what was going on in there with the borescope. We could see a disc like object rotating. not sure what part that was though... from the hole I could see that the throw bearing was moving, the part with the zerk on it.
1957 420C Crawler / 1950(?) Massey Fergussen Tractor / 1952 International Harvester TD-24

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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by Lavoy » Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:37 pm

You need to have a hand on the pedal while adjusting freeplay or you are quite possibly wasting you time. Bottoming out means nothing other than you are out of rotation of the adjuster.
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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:58 pm

Im going back up in a few days.... I had a mechanic out who was doing a diagnostic and most of the work and fiddling. I think we did move the pedal while turning it but I could totally be wrong. I want to go back and spend a lot more time with it. its difficult for me to visualize whats in there because i dont work on transmissions and clutches.. the most ive ever really done is pull starters and tweak carburetors, drum brake assembly... never pulled an engine. damn i love that machine though.
1957 420C Crawler / 1950(?) Massey Fergussen Tractor / 1952 International Harvester TD-24

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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by Lavoy » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:05 am

Loosen the jam nut so that the adjuster can be rotated. With the wrench of the flat of the adjuster, and you hand on the pedal, rotate the adjuster back and forth while simultaneously moving the pedal til you get about inch to inch and half of freeplay.
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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by dtoots1 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:30 am

you posted that you worked on the clutch and brake shaft sleeve to loosen rust binding. you have not clarified if you have achieved any freedom of movement so that brake and clutch move independently. where are you with that? push the brake pedal itself and watch the clutch pedal, if that moves forward it is still binding, now, anchor the clutch pedal, and push brake pedal again and see if it (brake pedal) will move forward any at all, if no movement, it needs additional work to loosen. Now if there is some movement, additional efforts to break that rust loose are needed air, pb blaster, 50% atf and acetone, or some such penetrant, then with clutch pedal held back move brake pedal back and forth and lubricate till you have free movement. then go thru adjustment procedures to get proper free play

what have you accomplished with the key switch or kill switch to eliminate that feedback, so can shut machine down?

it helps if you have 2 people working together...also check diagrams in manuals

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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:14 pm

The last thing I did for the pedals was to spray pb blaster as best as I could at the shaft on the clutch side. Its definitely still bound together. at one point I unhooked the brake linkage to see if it might give the clutch some more movement but it didnt seem to make a difference, although I failed to start the engine up and try it.

I didnt get the kill switch installed either, my last trip up I started to realize that maybe it was just something not wired right in the ignition and that it would be better to get back there and wire it right rather than installing a kill switch...
1957 420C Crawler / 1950(?) Massey Fergussen Tractor / 1952 International Harvester TD-24

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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:43 pm

ok so I was back up there and this time I brought an inspection camera. I basically poked around everywhere I could hoping that it would catch the right part. I put in an kill switch, thanks for the diagram Jim.. I sprayed more PB blaster at it. I bought a propane torch at walmart thinking i could heat up the shaft but I didnt get to it. I was a little afraid I would light the pb blaster on fire.

inspection camera footage, shows the starter motor gear and the flywheel gear, possibly clutch assembly stuff, springs... shows pedal slack too:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/160YOWv ... sp=sharing

more inspection footage, some linkage and what happens when pedal is pressed
at the 1:05 mark, I think you can see the clutch plates or the apparatus, I squeeze the pedals and you can see something like a plate moving.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ifGvIn ... sp=sharing


even more footage... Im just trying to poke the camera everywhere I can...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YkG92f ... sp=sharing


video of kill switch installed and loader raised up
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mZu5Z0 ... sp=sharing

footage of me starting it and attempting to get in gear. also emerging problem... the starter doesnt always catch.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FcdchI ... sp=sharing
1957 420C Crawler / 1950(?) Massey Fergussen Tractor / 1952 International Harvester TD-24

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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by dtoots1 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:16 am

in last video of interior clutch...marked even more video....ikeep seeing a long shaft , that appears to have the end out of a hole or bearing? not sure just exactly what i am seeing...
can easily see that the pressure plate fingers are applying pressure, but not able to see if moving away from the flywheel.
couldn't see if you have tracks up off the floor, so they can spin if you put in low gear

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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by Jim B » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:06 am

Hi dtoots1,

That long shaft is the propeller shaft between the clutch and reverser. The rod beside it is the clutch rod between the clutch pedal shaft and throwout bearing carrier. It is a bit confusing as it is upside down, pretty easy and common to end up that way when trying to navigate a borescope thru a hole. Looks like there might have been some critters in residence inside there at times. I think some cleaning, free up the pedal shafts, a new clutch assembly and adjusting the steering clutches and brakes will likely cure most of his problems in the drive line area.

Jim

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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:52 pm

dtoots1 wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:16 am
in last video of interior clutch...marked even more video....ikeep seeing a long shaft , that appears to have the end out of a hole or bearing? not sure just exactly what i am seeing...
can easily see that the pressure plate fingers are applying pressure, but not able to see if moving away from the flywheel.
couldn't see if you have tracks up off the floor, so they can spin if you put in low gear
I could be mistaken, but I believe at around 1:05 in this vid you can see the plate moving...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ifGvIn ... sp=sharing
1957 420C Crawler / 1950(?) Massey Fergussen Tractor / 1952 International Harvester TD-24

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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:59 pm

was there someone in here who suggested spraying brake cleaner all up in there?
1957 420C Crawler / 1950(?) Massey Fergussen Tractor / 1952 International Harvester TD-24

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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by Lavoy » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:43 am

Lift the loader, shut it off, put it in second gear, start it, and go drive it around while holding the clutch pedal in. If you need to stop, pull the steering levers, it will stop. Put the scarifier down, or otherwise get some load on the crawler. You can't step on the brake as you shafts are rusted together. If it breaks loose, you have one part solved. If not, back it in the shed and pull the engine, there is no other good way. Anything else is a bandaid fix or worse.
You starter needs to be rebuilt.
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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:00 pm

Lavoy wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:43 am
Lift the loader, shut it off, put it in second gear, start it, and go drive it around while holding the clutch pedal in. If you need to stop, pull the steering levers, it will stop. Put the scarifier down, or otherwise get some load on the crawler. You can't step on the brake as you shafts are rusted together. If it breaks loose, you have one part solved. If not, back it in the shed and pull the engine, there is no other good way. Anything else is a bandaid fix or worse.
You starter needs to be rebuilt.
Lavoy
I'll give it a shot but putting the clutch down engages the brake... Im just fucked, gotta pull this thing apart. I wish I could bring it back to my house and work on it where i have everything.
1957 420C Crawler / 1950(?) Massey Fergussen Tractor / 1952 International Harvester TD-24

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