420c not shifting into gear

General help and support for your Lindeman through 2010 John Deere crawler
dtoots1
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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by dtoots1 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:35 am

there is one other thing that i did to free up clutch and brake rods ...rusting together .....while dry took hammer to it...reasonably...to loosen up the rust, etc and try to blow out, before getting all gummed up with penetrating oils....after getting loose i carefully drilled the outer sleeve and shot the lightest grease i could get in and worked back and forth many times and then add a bit more and repeat..this was on a 2010 so sleeve may be a bit thicker than yours.

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420CrawlerHoller
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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:22 am

Dtools, you got any photos of what you did?

Im heading up there with a gen and a compressor and a shit load of penetrating oil but I will also bring a drill... though Im very reticent to drill holes into my lil monster.... ok if I understand correctly, the clutch is the outside shaft... ?
1957 420C Crawler / 1950(?) Massey Fergussen Tractor / 1952 International Harvester TD-24

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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by Jim B » Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:01 am

Yes, the clutch shaft is the outer one of the two. The brake shaft (it is a solid shaft) runs through the clutch shaft (hollow tube). You will see a rod going back to the brake on left from a lever on the end of the shaft. The rod on the right connects to the brake pedal. The rod to the throw out bearing is inside the housing. Maybe the attached marked up parts breakdown will help you ID things. I don't think you can put a zerk in your 420 clutch shaft. It looks like the 2010 used a different arrangement on the pedals, they "hang" from the cowl, so the interface with the clutch and brake shafts is above the floor boards. Good Luck.

Jim

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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by Lavoy » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:53 am

The only place you can get penetrant in to do any good is on the left side of the clutch pedal and where the brake pedal shaft comes through on the LH side, where shaft 18 goes through sleeve 12. If you can get it to move, you drive the groove pin out of the brake pedal and see if you can get it loose on the shaft. Unhook the brake rod on the LH side, and slide the shaft as far to the left as you can. Emery cloth the shaft that you can expose, anti seize it while it is out.
A power washer with a zero degree nozzle will sometimes blow the rust out as well.
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420CrawlerHoller
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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:50 pm

so, if Im successful in freeing this up... to stop, I would first depress the clutch then the brake yes?
1957 420C Crawler / 1950(?) Massey Fergussen Tractor / 1952 International Harvester TD-24

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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by Jim B » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:05 pm

Yes,clutch then brake just like a manual transmission car or truck. I would guess however your brake linkage maybe way out of adjustment, if it is still hooked up, given the frozen pedals. The foot brake operates the same brakes that are used to steer. You will find info about adjusting/balancing the foot brake pedal in the steering clutch section of your service manual. Have to get the pedals free first.

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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:00 pm

damn, i liked how easy it was to just push both pedals down at the same time. :) the brake definitely works... as Ive coasted out of gear back down a slope and braked... i have some hope that the pedals will become unstuck just because I noticed that the clutch was dipping lower to the board than before... the dozer has always been in a barn and my pops never operated in wet conditions.
1957 420C Crawler / 1950(?) Massey Fergussen Tractor / 1952 International Harvester TD-24

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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:59 pm

Lavoy wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:53 am
The only place you can get penetrant in to do any good is on the left side of the clutch pedal and where the brake pedal shaft comes through on the LH side, where shaft 18 goes through sleeve 12. If you can get it to move, you drive the groove pin out of the brake pedal and see if you can get it loose on the shaft. Unhook the brake rod on the LH side, and slide the shaft as far to the left as you can. Emery cloth the shaft that you can expose, anti seize it while it is out.
A power washer with a zero degree nozzle will sometimes blow the rust out as well.
Lavoy

Hi Lavoy, I just want to make sure Im understanding this right. When you are describing left and right are we talking from the driver's perspective?
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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by Lavoy » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:17 am

Correct.
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420CrawlerHoller
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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:45 pm

ok so Im unhooking the brake and wiggling the brake shaft to the left towards the clutch side. got some pb blaster, gonna bring some air up there to see if that will help blast it in more.... also gonna change the gear oil cause i bet that hasnt been changed in decades... is there anything i can do for the clutch itself? I saw somewhere that someone had said splashing some kerosene up in there through a hole would wash the oil off it or something like that but I cant find that passage for some reason now.
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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by Jim B » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:03 am

No kerosene, penetrating oil or such on the clutch itself, you can use those things on linkages. All the clutches (engine and steering) in your machine are dry clutches and should not have oil on them. If the rear main seal of the engine is leaking oil it can ruin the clutch disc in time. If anything, I would only spray a brake cleaner on/around the clutch. The way you described your clutch problem I doubt oil on it is the issue. If it was slipping from oil, most likely the travel would have slowed or stopped without the engine slowing down.

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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by Lavoy » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:27 am

There is no cure for an oil soaked clutch other than replacement. Just like putting sawdust in a rear end, might quiet it down, but did nothing to address the problem.
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420CrawlerHoller
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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:34 pm

wish me luck.... i see on here how much other people love their crawlers and this thing evokes the same emotion for me. it just makes me get teary eyed and giddy. Its my pops, a legacy of him and his crazy plans. just hearing it makes me so so happy.
1957 420C Crawler / 1950(?) Massey Fergussen Tractor / 1952 International Harvester TD-24

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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by Lavoy » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:02 am

To have one that was your Dad's is truly special, congrats.
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Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:23 pm

Ok so just got back. Those pedals are locked up really tight. I sprayed PBblaster at the shaft on both sides to let it sit till next time but i have a feeling thats not gonna do much. the clutch is lower than the brake, so when I push the brake the clutch would engage first then the brake would engage... so maybe that was why this thing operated seemingly ok.

I looked for the clutch adjustment bolt and in the general area I thought it would be, I found this hole,anyone know what that is?:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14IYCPr ... sp=sharing

I see a nut and bolt below it, which I assume is the actual clutch adjustment bolt seen in this photo below that hole... I didnt mess with it because the clutch pedal had a good inch of play.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mugGqm ... sp=sharing


the serial is 102604 so this seems to be a 1957 420C.
and someone in here wanted a close up of the iD plate on the loader.
its painted over a bunch but some chipping reveals a part of the plate that might provide a clue
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PSmdA0 ... sp=sharing
1957 420C Crawler / 1950(?) Massey Fergussen Tractor / 1952 International Harvester TD-24

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