420c not shifting into gear

General help and support for your Lindeman through 2010 John Deere crawler
User avatar
Lavoy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10938
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:32 pm
Location: North Dakota
Contact:

Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by Lavoy » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:07 am

It all depends on what parts you are putting in, and what you are fixing. Engine clutch kit is $250, 4 hours or so labor, depends on equipment on the crawler.
If you are seriously looking at over $3000, I would buy $2500 worth of tools, generator, aior compressor, cordless tools etc, and do the job myself. Then the job is done, and you have tools and neat toys for the future.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

User avatar
420CrawlerHoller
420 crawler
420 crawler
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:23 am
Location: San Luis Obisbo County

Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:22 pm

Ive been thinking about that route. I have a 7k watt gen I have a mig welder and a bunch of tools in my shop at the house including a bunch of tools my pop used for the bulldozer. I would just need to haul some of them up and set up shop.. move a bunch of crap out of the barn. I assume I would need to get an engine lift....
1957 420C Crawler / 1950(?) Massey Fergussen Tractor / 1952 International Harvester TD-24

User avatar
Lavoy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10938
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:32 pm
Location: North Dakota
Contact:

Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by Lavoy » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:20 pm

Yes, or a loader of some sort. You will need to move the engine ahead about 6 inches before you can lift it out completely. If you have good rafters and could hook a section of I-beam with a roller and chain hoist to it, that would work great.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

dtoots1
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 1163
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:54 am
Location: akron, ohio

Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by dtoots1 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:33 pm

engine luft, come a long, chain hoist whatever....stuff is heavy and should have helper...do not use cement blocks...use solid wood for blocking..pry bars are useful too,,breaker bars and heat as well to heat stubborn bolts/nuts

User avatar
420CrawlerHoller
420 crawler
420 crawler
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:23 am
Location: San Luis Obisbo County

Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:22 pm

Im mechanically inclined to a degree, but this would be quite a project for me.... not sure I can handle it but Im intrigued. Maybe I could get a mobile mechanic out just to pull the loader and motor then I could spend time working on the clutch and unfreezing the pedals...
1957 420C Crawler / 1950(?) Massey Fergussen Tractor / 1952 International Harvester TD-24

User avatar
420CrawlerHoller
420 crawler
420 crawler
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:23 am
Location: San Luis Obisbo County

Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:04 pm

dtoots1 wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:33 pm
engine luft, come a long, chain hoist whatever....stuff is heavy and should have helper...do not use cement blocks...use solid wood for blocking..pry bars are useful too,,breaker bars and heat as well to heat stubborn bolts/nuts

thank you, yes good point about the blocks! i have pry bars and i guess i gotta figure out some kind of engine hoist that can operate on dirt... i always always appreciate all of you all's advice. I come back to these threads just coming up with excuses to hear from you all and download more knowledge about this beautiful little insane machine. i miss my pop... he had a lot of info that i wish i could rewind and go over again.
1957 420C Crawler / 1950(?) Massey Fergussen Tractor / 1952 International Harvester TD-24

dtoots1
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 1163
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:54 am
Location: akron, ohio

Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by dtoots1 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:38 am

important thing is always...safety first...make sure everything is solid and stationary...dont want anything falling nor loosing your parts and damaging them nor yourself.....i am 76 years young and keeping at it...i tore my 440 down by myself, after i had pulled engine from a 2010 totally by myself and replaced the clutch and removed head....i needed help getting the left final off the 440 because that literally takes 2 people, a female friend helped to turn it and stabilize it while i controlled the hoist to get it lifted and out....everything is really just nuts and bolts...wlll need the special gauge to set the engine clutch and same is used for the steering clutches....Lavoy has them available along with the parts needed to replace...

mine was a bit easier, since i could drive it onto 2 2x8s under each track and be able to get under it with hydraulic jack to raise it enough to clear tracks so can get them loose, by the way if you rig come along and chain or cable hooked to the blade and track plate you can then spin tracks to get the master pin lined up to get it out..tranny in neutral of course..

User avatar
420CrawlerHoller
420 crawler
420 crawler
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:23 am
Location: San Luis Obisbo County

Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:19 pm

yes sir! safety first and hell yes, keep on going till the chains fall off. 76 years young man thats an inspiration.


the big problem up there is that its inside a barn and the floor is dirt and not terribly hard packed. the barn is made of reclaimed wood my pop and my granpa and mom made it 40 years ago. im shocked actually it's still up... but its holding it just isnt very good for this kind of project cant hang anything from the rafters.. im thinking about laying down a bunch of wood under the dozer. maybe a couple 8x4 sheets of 3/4 ply thick of floor under it just so I can roll a hoist around. that would require me pulling the dozer in and out of the barn which Im thinking I could do with a pull strap and my toyota....

I still dream I could get that clutch going again without breaking it apart. something with that clutch adjustment cam. some how.
1957 420C Crawler / 1950(?) Massey Fergussen Tractor / 1952 International Harvester TD-24

dtoots1
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 1163
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:54 am
Location: akron, ohio

Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by dtoots1 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:14 am

first of all, i would bypass the ignition switch..with some kind of kill switch so you can stop the engine, considering that the clutch won't disengage...obviously the machine runs and drives...you then have choice to load it home or safe garage to work on properly. get it safe.

being a 420, i am not sure, but believe you may not need underneath to be able to pull the engine, may be able to get everything from top down--which is simply nuts and bolts. main thing is being able to lift engine and slide it forward at least 6 inchs as Lavoy mentioned. the clutch and bell housing will probably remain on the tractor and you can work on replacing the clutch, throw out bearing and anything else needed in there clean etc...by the way that sure does not sound like $3000! job. for yourself, label all connections you have to disconnect so that you can get em back correctly and check in book that they are proper...especially your generator wiring and coil etc..

also if i recollect, you can disconnect the generator so machine runs simply off the battery...long as good charge....and should be able to kill it..so can get loaded etc....either that or find out why is feedback and get that straightened out---for your own safety

edit...
by the way, if you can get that done...you may well then end up with $500 in parts bought and some tools and still not into 3 grand

User avatar
Lavoy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10938
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:32 pm
Location: North Dakota
Contact:

Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by Lavoy » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:52 am

If the crawler needs to be driven in an "emergency" so to speak, you can start it in gear with the steering levers held back and you still have a clutch. Low gear, at idle only for safety.
I would never pull the loader. I would rather do 5 clutches on a dirt floor than pull one loader on a cement floor. Assuming you have the overhead clearance, run the loader up, and cut an angle iron the correct length and hose clamp it over a towel on top of the ram between the cylinder body and the clevis or eyelet end. If removing the bucket helps with overhead clearance do that first.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

dtoots1
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 1163
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:54 am
Location: akron, ohio

Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by dtoots1 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:37 am

number one thing i would do first....is check out all the pivot points for wear on all the clutch connections you can get to...if worn get bushings in to tighten and check the pins for wear as well, replace if needed..even if you can't get to all pivot points it may well be enough to get the pressure plate released..the clutch only moves a small amount to release and all loose pivots multiply the error once you can get tightened you may well NOT need to replace the engine clutch....video doesn't show hesitation like the clutch would be slipping.
basically the pedal moves maybe 5 inches but the pressure plate moves at most about 1/8 inch to release.

with the loader arms on crawler i assume you will need to get underneath to get to the pivot points to check and repair also mean taking off the skid plate

LAVOY and guys,
is it possible that the pressure plate is rusted to flywheel? If so, any way to get it loosened? maybe against tree and push clutch in?

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by Jim B » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:44 am

Hi dtoots,

His clutch pedal and brake pedal shafts are frozen together and have been for a long time from what he posted in the beginning. The brake pedal moves when he pushes the clutch pedal. He used to be able to get it into gear but can't now so it is likely he needs to get at the clutch itself as well as the clutch and brake pedal shafts in the center section.

Lavoy,

That is a good point about blocking the loader boom up with angle iron, if possible, rather than taking it off. What would your thoughts be on using the loader boom to support rigging to swing the motor out, if a heavy angle iron was put on both boom cylinders? I know such has been done in field site scenarios.

Jim

User avatar
Lavoy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10938
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:32 pm
Location: North Dakota
Contact:

Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by Lavoy » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:30 am

Using the loader wouldn't bother me as long as the supports were firmly in place and no chance of popping out.
One question I forgot to ask is how much freeplay is in the clutch pedal? If there is correct freeplay, and pressure can be felt against the pressure plate fingers, further adjustment will accomplish nothing, adjustment is not the problem.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

User avatar
420CrawlerHoller
420 crawler
420 crawler
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:23 am
Location: San Luis Obisbo County

Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by 420CrawlerHoller » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:10 pm

there is about 2-4 inches of free play on the pedal but I did not measure exactly. The clutch pedal does get pretty much all the way to the floor...
1957 420C Crawler / 1950(?) Massey Fergussen Tractor / 1952 International Harvester TD-24

User avatar
Lavoy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10938
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:32 pm
Location: North Dakota
Contact:

Re: 420c not shifting into gear

Post by Lavoy » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:02 pm

Should be inch to inch and a half. Did you keep a hand on the pedal as you were adjusting the clutch to see if it felt better in any particular spot?
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 32 guests