1958 420 Battery

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bookman51
430 crawler
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1958 420 Battery

Post by bookman51 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:40 pm

I have a 1958 420 crawler. To get the battery in and out, I have to take off the clutch pedal. Is this normal?

The battery tray is part AT 10454 T. There is a lip on it that tilts out, but it hits the clutch pedal. There is no way the clutch pedal can be pushed down far enough for the the lip to be flat. I have tried many times.

So, I have to get under the tractor and take out the two bolts holding clutch pedal on. Get the battery out. Then after I put the battery back in, I need to crawl back under the tractor and replace the two bolts holding the clutch pedal back on.

And, if I need to put a charger on the battery (I do keep a maintenance charger on it) as I did recently in the cold weather, I have to do the same thing because I cannot get a charger clamp on the negative terminal without sliding the battery out. Anybody got any solutions to this?

I have thought about attaching a heavy duty battery cable to the negative terminal and run it out where I can connect a battery charger to it, but I got to make sure it does not hit any metal on the tractor or else I would get a short. Again, any ideas?

Thanks in advance

JWB Contracting
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Re: 1958 420 Battery

Post by JWB Contracting » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:11 pm

Hold the pedal down, fold the lid down and pull your battery out. Not a great design, battery placement did not improve until the 1010 / 2010 series. Try a 420 loader..
Jason Benesch

John Deere 420, 430, 440 & 350C With 3 Point Hitch
John Deere 400G With Winch
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John Deere 420, 430, 435 & 440 Wheel Tractors

deeretails
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Re: 1958 420 Battery

Post by deeretails » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:26 pm

You don't need to attach the maintainer to the battery. If the unit is still the original 6 volt positive ground, attach the positive lead to a good ground source, attach the negative lead to the hot terminal on the starter.

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gregjo1948
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Re: 1958 420 Battery

Post by gregjo1948 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:30 am

I think I'd be mounting it on a fender.
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 1958 420 Battery

Post by Stan Disbrow » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:10 am

Hi,

Cut a bit off the fold down part. Now it clears the clutch pedal with it up.

I will take a pic of how my dad did his a little later when we have some daylight.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

Ray III
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Re: 1958 420 Battery

Post by Ray III » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:16 pm

Are you sure the clutch is adjusted correctly? I have no such interference between the pedal and the tray. I have a 1957 (Phase II) model though.

I also charge the battery via the hot stud on the starter.

bookman51
430 crawler
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Location: Kearney, Nebraska

Re: 1958 420 Battery

Post by bookman51 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:44 pm

Thanks folks. The point is that the clutch pedal will not go down far enough for the battery holder to fold down. There is just no way it can happen, and I pushed on it a lot over the years I have had the crawler. Even if the battery lip were cut so it would fold down beyond the clutch pedal, the cultch pedal would still be in the way of getting the battery out

Is the clutch pedal installed or adjusted wrong somehow? It could be. I will look at it again in the next day or two and see if can be adjusted forward some. Does someone else have a 1958 crawler where the pedal goes down far enough to get the battery out?


Putting the charger negative wire on the starter terminal and the putting the positive wire on metal on the crawler is the simplest solution. However, I have never gotten the same starting power doing that as when I connect the charging terminals directly to the battery terminals. Perhaps I have not found a good enough connection, but I have connected the negative connection to several places on the crawler. Any suggestions?

Thanks much for the thoughts.

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gregjo1948
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Re: 1958 420 Battery

Post by gregjo1948 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:28 am

I believe the negative( - ) should go directly to the starter on a 6 volt system. The positive can go any place that goes to ground. I don't remember where the positive( + ) battery lead is fastened to the machine but, if it's where you can attach your cable, that should give you a good connection.
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17

Jim B
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Re: 1958 420 Battery

Post by Jim B » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:37 am

It sounds like something is not right in your linkage or adjustment. It doesn't seem you should have to remove the pedal to get the battery in and out. I know it wasn't a 420 but I had a 430 with that same type pedal and the battery would come out by it with the pedal up.

You can do an on-line search for remote battery terminal boosting kits for charging and boosting, many places sell them. A kit should consist of a bracket and insulated posts to go in it (some include some battery cable). They use them on race cars, U-Haul uses some on trucks, cars with hard to get at batteries, etc. Mount the bracket where you want, then you could cable the negative post to the starter terminal and the positive one under the same bolt where the positive cable attaches to the frame. For practical purposes that should be the same as hooking to the battery, if your existing cables and connections are good.

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 1958 420 Battery

Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:22 am

Hi,

The Pos goes to the dash right at the battery. The Neg goes to the starter. Cables are very short and need to be very fat. The usual issue is someone uses 12v car cables from the auto parts store. Too skinny. Won't supply enough current.

First thing, get a new 6v battery. I use Deere brand. Interstate is OK. Don't get one from elsewhere as they tend to not have enough cranking amps. Get new cables from Lavoy. He has the correct size and length.

Try not to do a 12v conversion unless you get 12v starter. Which, these days, means having a shop rework yours. Putting 12v on the 6v starter is bad news for your ring gear as they tend to stop in one spot a lot. It can also lead to busting the starter nosecone, which is unobtanium these days. The rest of the starter is shared Delco with lots of things. The nosecone is specific to that application and has long been out of production.

Fix the 6v system properly and they do work well. Both my 1958 420c and my 1950 M still sport their 6v everything.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

bookman51
430 crawler
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Location: Kearney, Nebraska

Re: 1958 420 Battery

Post by bookman51 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:49 am

I checked and I probably am due for a new battery. I got the current one in July of 2013 from TSC for $79.99. If I get more than three years off a 6 volt battery I feel lucky (not good though). However I recently did get seven years from a 6 volt TSC battery on my Farmall 340, but I run it pretty regularly. I keep maintenance chargers on all my tractors, but particularly the six volt ones.

I will take a look at John Deere for a replacement and see how proud of them they are. For battery cables I went to a welding shop a few years ago and got 0 gauge (if I remember correctly) welding cable for all my tractor battery cables, although for the positive grounds I still have wire mesh positive grounds for some, including this crawler. Even with a maintenance charger I have to watch for corrosion on the terminals. The charger will say green but the contacts have been lost with corrosion, plus I need to check the water in the battery on a regular basis so they do not go dry. So whatever I do, I am looking for an easier way to get the battery in and out to check it.

I took a look at the clutch pedal and it is not intuitive to me how it is not adjusted right. When the weather warms up I will take a better look. The crawler serial is 133412 and the clutch pedal is 11112T. It is sort like an L at the base. Then according to the parts manual (I have both the parts manual and a dealer service manual for the 420), there is a Woodruff key in the shaft, so I assume the clutch hub can only go on the shaft in one position.

If there is an adjustment to make the clutch forward more, it has to be in the clutch rod. The clutch pedal will not come back more because it hits a plate. The service manual does not seem to have good information on adjusting the clutch pedal on a crawler or else I am just not looking right. Perhaps they figured that they did not have to explain an adjustment on the clutch rod.

I would not think having to take off the clutch pedal to remove the battery is a great piece of deliberate engineering so maybe the clutch pedal is adjusted wrong somehow, but then I do not think putting a battery in a tight spot under a gas tank is a great piece of deliberate engineering either, but what do I know.

I have tried putting the charger negative clamp on the starter and then grounding the positive clamp to the tracks or some other unpainted metal part). I do not seem to get much cranking power. Maybe I just did persist enough in finding a good ground. I have a pretty good sized wheeled charger that kicks out lots of amps.

Thanks for all the good advice. I think I do have some things to follow up on and see how they work.

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Lavoy
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Re: 1958 420 Battery

Post by Lavoy » Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:40 pm

You may not find a correct info regarding the clutch adjustment on your crawler. The late clutch type reverser 420's did not get some of their features in the service manuals.
That being said, I have had a few, and do not remember it being an issue taking the battery out.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

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Stan Disbrow
350 crawler
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Re: 1958 420 Battery

Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:52 pm

Hi,

My Dad's 58 had an issue where the fold down piece hit the clutch pedal, so he trimmed it such that it would lie flat with the pedal up. Now the battery slides right out and no messing with the pedal.

I have a 440 gas crawler service manual because the reverser and related bits are not in the 420 crawler service manual.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

bookman51
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:20 am
Location: Kearney, Nebraska

Re: 1958 420 Battery

Post by bookman51 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:34 am

Thanks folks. I suspect that the linkage in the clutch pedal needs adjusting so it can go further forward far enough for the battery box lip to fold down. It is a warm weather project unless we get more snow here and I need to get the crawler out.

I double checked, and I have an Exide battery, but I think I still got it from TSC in July 2013. For chuckles and grins, I checked with the local John Deere dealer yesterday. They have to order a six volt battery and it would take two to three weeks. The price was something like $99. The parts fellow said Exide makes them.

In checking on the Internet various sources say that Exide makes the Traveller for battery for TSC. The local store has them priced at $96.99. The cold cranking is 700 amps.

Now whether or not Exide makes the batteries to the same standards for John Deere as for TSC, I do not know. Maybe for just the few extra dollars I will try the John Deere battery next time. I cannot complain about almost six years on a six volt battery.

I might do some looking for a 440 gas crawler service manual to see if tells me more. Thanks again.

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