440i question

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mavs1422
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440i question

Post by mavs1422 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:20 pm

Hello everyone. I am looking to buy 440i wheeled backhoe with a loader, I realize this is a crawler site but from what I've read you have a ton of knowledge on the 440's. The 440 I'm looking at has a 5spd with a reverser and a gas engine. The 440 transmission works backwards, ie when the transmission is in 1 thru 5 it goes in reverse and to go forward you have to pull the reverser lever. Ive been told buy the seller that the clutch in the tranny is stuck. Any thoughts or info on making it right would be greatly appreciated.

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gregjo1948
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Re: 440i question

Post by gregjo1948 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:55 am

Are you saying there are 5 reverse speeds with the reverser lever forward and 5 forward speeds when the lever is pulled back? If that's so; I'd think someone may have been into the reverser and reassembled it incorrectly. I'm not sure if it's possible but, if one of the right angle pieces, that are at both ends of the reverser control rod, are installed opposite to what it's supposed to be, it would make the reverser lever operate the reverser backwards.
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mavs1422
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Re: 440i question

Post by mavs1422 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:03 am

From what i'm being told it used to work like it should and after a long period of sitting it started working "backwards". I haven't driven the machine yet but have watched it in operation. With the reverser lever forward it going in reverse in all forward gears and to make it go forward the reverser has to be pulled into the reverse location. That's why he's saying the clutch is stuck. The thing runs great and works good with a $1200 price tag I hate to pass on it. Could the reverser be out of adjustment or need the forward side of it rebuilt? I cant believe the main clutch being stuck would cause this issue.

Jim B
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Re: 440i question

Post by Jim B » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:37 am

There is no clutch in the transmission. The engine clutch is on the engine flywheel ahead of the reverser. It is a dry clutch and those have been known to stick from setting. If that clutch is stuck the tractor won't stop when the clutch foot pedal is pushed. It always turns the same way so it being stuck wouldn't have the effect on the reverser lever you describe, in my thoughts.

The reverser is between the engine clutch and transmission. It has a forward and a reverse clutch in it. These run in oil, if properly maintained. Not impossible to be stuck, or otherwise locked up, from setting but not as likely as with a dry clutch. In looking at the parts catalog it does look like there are a couple points the linkage might be reversed and cause this, but I can't say that for sure. If it has strong 1-5 gears in forward and 1-5 gears in reverse (and the R gear in both), only the lever is working backwards, it sounds like linkage. Check the linkage against the manuals. Does the lever snap into position in both directions?

If the reverse clutch, in the reverser, is the only reverser clutch working the tractor will only go forward when the transmission is in the reverse (R) gear. 1 - 5 forward gears would be reverse only, as I have seen that on a crawler with a failed forward clutch. If both the forward and reverse clutches in the reverser were good (and adjusted properly) the tractor might move one direction with a stuck/bound up clutch, but stall when shifted to the other direction; like a transmission locked in two gears acts.

You didn't say anything about someone having any of this apart prior to this issue developing and the linkage doesn't change itself. You don't say how well you know the seller and tractor, but to me it sounds like there may be more to the story. From your posts thus far, I would say there is a 50/50 chance it will need an overhaul. Just my thoughts and I hope someone says I'm wrong.

dtoots1
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Re: 440i question

Post by dtoots1 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:46 am

edit your profile and let us know where you located..
someone close by, may be able to look.
agree with Jim, linkage or internal screwup somewhere!!

mavs1422
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Re: 440i question

Post by mavs1422 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:04 pm

Ok I just talked to the seller and I was mistaken on part of it. The guy he got it off of said the clutch was stuck. so as long as he's had it the "tranny" has been backwards. With that said the motor was pulled before he got it and rebuilt, so maybe it is just a linkage being hooked up wrong. As soon as I can get a big enough trailer i'll get it home and check it out. Thanks for the help everyone, ill keep you posted on it.

original possum
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Re: 440i question

Post by original possum » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:45 pm

This is sixty year memory working, but I recall pushing the lever forward for reverse and pulling it for forward. Sounds good to me.
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Re: 440i question

Post by Lavoy » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:00 pm

Forward is forward, back is reverse. If it is anything other than that, something is goofed up, but it can't be internal, has to be a linkage issue.
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mavs1422
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Re: 440i question

Post by mavs1422 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:24 pm

That's good to know. I personally think i'm getting a heck of a deal on it. 5 of the 9 cylinders have been rebuilt, the starter is rebuilt has a new altenator an new exhaust manifold new governor gear and was rebuilt engine 5 years ago. Its ugly and rusty but I would have thought twice if it was painted recently. Thanks for the info everyone.

mavs1422
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Re: 440i question

Post by mavs1422 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:54 pm

Well I was completely wrong on the reverser situation. I finally got this to my house today and started playing with it. It will only move by using the reverser ie. in first gear pull reverser to go in reverse and put in reverse and pull reverser to go forward. With reverser lever forward it doesn't move at all and clutch pedal doesn't seem to do anything.

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 440i question

Post by Stan Disbrow » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:31 pm

Hi,

Do much of that trans in R, reverser in R to go forward, and you won't have the reverser R, either...

Stan
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dtoots1
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Re: 440i question

Post by dtoots1 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:44 pm

That would indicate reverser rebuild...front half worn, though you mite try adjusting the front clutch..also check fluid level see if low..
Though you state put reverser in reverse and put in reverse(tranny???) ..reverse an reverse would be forward movement..what does it do in forward gear in tranny??? it should move backwards in the forward gear as that i what the reverser does....do NOT use reverse and reverser together to do any work as will finish tearing it up...

dtoots1
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Re: 440i question

Post by dtoots1 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:10 pm

Not sure of interchangeability of reverser from 440ic loader reverser to your wheeled, i do have a donor one on hand that seems to function if you would want to test it, i know it snaps very well, just don't know what the clutches are like in it. Have been saving it to use on my jd440ic, cause mine does not snap into reverse and stay there, so i use tranny reverse when needed. If it works well, while rebuilding yours, i would be willing to let you borrow it, with some kind of deposit or the rebuilt one. I am NOT ready to tear mine down to replace the dang reverser and have no idea even what it worth or cost to rebuild one. i am near Akron, ohio just off IS76/224.

curious you say 5 of the 9 cylinders?? how big is that engine???
Last edited by dtoots1 on Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mavs1422
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Re: 440i question

Post by mavs1422 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:11 pm

Yes when tranny is in reverse it goes forward with it in forward it moves in reverse. The reverser lever doesn't "snap" into either position. To move it you have to hold reverser lever back while moving.

mavs1422
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Re: 440i question

Post by mavs1422 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:14 pm

Thanks dtoots, 'm going to see if adjusting it will work before I do anything else. If that doesn't do it then it'll be a winter project to split it and rebuild it.

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