440ICD Starter Woes

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DetroitDiesel
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440ICD Starter Woes

Post by DetroitDiesel » Tue May 14, 2019 9:19 pm

Hi everyone, I've been having some trouble with the starter on my recently obtained 440ICD. When cranking the engine the starter sticks will not stop cranking the engine unless the battery is disconnected. After the battery is re-connected the starter remains disengaged as it should until a signal is applied to the start terminal of the solenoid in which case the starter sticks again. I have bypassed the ignition switch and am switching power to the S terminal manually to eliminate that. When removed from the crawler the starter functions fine, engaging and disengaging as it should. I did try a spare seemingly identical solenoid I had on hand from an old Delco starter from a 6.2 diesel and the results were the same. It looks as though it was rebuilt and not used much since but I am thinking it may have an incorrect starter drive installed causing my issue though I'm not quite sure how to verify this. While cranking it does sound like the pinion and ring gear are meshing well. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Charlie
'59 440ICD
'62 2010 Tractor

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gregjo1948
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Re: 440ICD Starter Woes

Post by gregjo1948 » Wed May 15, 2019 4:29 am

Not sure I followed your explanation correctly. Sounds like when you eliminated the ignition switch , it worked correctly. When you turn the ignition switch to the start position and release, is there still power on the wire going to the solenoid?
JD 350B diesel w/rops & 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 utility, International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17

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DetroitDiesel
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Re: 440ICD Starter Woes

Post by DetroitDiesel » Wed May 15, 2019 6:17 am

I apologize if it was not explained well. Even with the ignition switch disconnected the starter still hangs up (continues to crank the engine until battery is disconnected) if I briefly apply 12v+ to the S terminal. This is without anything else hooked to the S terminal besides a test lead used to briefly energize it
'59 440ICD
'62 2010 Tractor

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Lavoy
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Re: 440ICD Starter Woes

Post by Lavoy » Wed May 15, 2019 9:29 am

Drive could be binding on the shaft, bad solenoid/s.
'Lavoy
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DetroitDiesel
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Re: 440ICD Starter Woes

Post by DetroitDiesel » Wed May 15, 2019 11:45 am

I've had the starter apart a couple times now and lubricated everything, it seems to be all moving freely. The solenoid that came on the machine looked brand new (certainly doesn't mean it couldn't be bad, though) as does the field wingdings and armature. I'm wondering if the drive/drive gear could be wrong or the spiral grooves that the drive retracts on could be of the wrong direction? I've tried to find some pictures of these to compare but have had no luck. The starter is a 1108656 which I believe it should be. It calls for a 6140-283 drive which I have found available but hate to buy if it's not the problem. Thanks all for the suggestions
'59 440ICD
'62 2010 Tractor

dtoots1
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Re: 440ICD Starter Woes

Post by dtoots1 » Wed May 15, 2019 1:52 pm

detrotdiesel,
Where are you located in ne ohio? i am near Akron.
i have a good 449icd starter, if you want to buy it , will sell for $350, i can let you borrow it with a deposit, if you want to test your set up.
However, i am scheduled to leave tonite for Tennessee, around midnite, check your private message, on this site, for my cell number., and text me..
dtoots1

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gregjo1948
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Re: 440ICD Starter Woes

Post by gregjo1948 » Thu May 16, 2019 3:49 am

I'm pretty sure the 440 diesel used a 12 volt system but I'm not sure if they used positive or negative ground. Could it be you're getting power thru ground?
JD 350B diesel w/rops & 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 utility, International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 440ICD Starter Woes

Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu May 16, 2019 4:21 am

Hi,

Sounds like the shaft and/or drive is worn. Doesn't take much for the torque to bind it, and then it can't release.

Stan
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Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
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Re: 440ICD Starter Woes

Post by dtoots1 » Thu May 16, 2019 2:23 pm

He's practically in my backyard! 20 minutes or so..got starter hope he posts results. he is a young un...needs tracks if anyone got available and probably more...when i get back hope to look him up

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DetroitDiesel
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Re: 440ICD Starter Woes

Post by DetroitDiesel » Fri May 17, 2019 6:41 am

It turns out that my starter was rebuilt at some point with the incorrect drive gear, the replacement starter from dtoots1 worked well.

I appreciate everyone's input and suggestions
'59 440ICD
'62 2010 Tractor

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