1010 drive sprocket questions

[dnormand25]

I am currently rebuilding my 1010. Does any one know the method by which you would guage the sprocket wear? Is it based upon the amount of metal removed from the sprocket gullet rim or is there another method? My wear appears to be in the front of the gullet.

Assuming that my wear is marginal, do I gain any time/use by switching the right drive to the left and vice versa? Thus placing the previously front worn surface to the rear? A sort of tire rotation for a crawler.

David in Poplarville,Ms

[ggfossen]

Dave,

I don't have the answer to your question, but it strikes me that you deserve kudos for the thought. I did think to flip the started ring gear, but it never occurred to me to switch sprockets from side to side. Something to keep in mind.

Gary

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

I guess that depends on how much backing up vs. running forward a given machine has done. I know I back up just about as much as I go forward.

Keep in mind that reverse operation wears the sprockets at a greater rate than going forwards does, so the overall wear is actually about equal going forward with a load as going backwards without a load.

I think you'd have to measure the wear on both sides of the teeth to determine if swapping the sprockets will make sense or not.....

Stan

[ggfossen]

Stan,

OK. I never thought of that point, either. You are, however, right. I guess I just never thought about going back as much as ahead. I do, though, put a hell of a lot more force on things when moving ahead as opposed to reverse. That could make a difference.

Gary

[dnormand25]

so if you owned a crawler without a reverser then there is a definate benefit to switching sides. Is it a fair assumption to say the cradleing effect of the gullet is most important on the leading edge of the sprocket in foward motion. This is as opposed to full contact over 1/2 of the pin.

David in Poplarville, Ms

[ggfossen]

Dave,

I don't think whether or not the crawler is equiped with a reverser is the issue. It's how much going backward comparerd to how much going forward one does. Also, it may depend on just how much work the machine is doing in either direction. In my case, I tend to work it a lot harder while moving forward, as opposed to moving backward.

If the machine has been used for ag work, it might spend a hell of alot more time going ahead than backward. The machine I have spent most of it's life either building road, or logging in very steep country. A much different thing from ag work in flat country.

I think one might simply eyeball the sprockets and, if worn more on one side than the other, there may then be a benefit???

Gary

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

It's not the reverser that does this, it's the simple act of backing up.

I suppose if one worked in a high gear a lot, then having a reverser would accelerate the wear rate on the reverse side. Of course, working in a high gear a lot would also accelerate the forward wear rate as well. So, in the end, I'd have to think that a reverser has almost no effect. Unless.....

Unless one was in the habit of pushing in a low gear, then shifting to a higher gear to back up while using the reverser. Speed matters when we're talking wear rates. Personally, I tend to back up in whatever gear I'm working forward in, which is why I have a reverser in the first place. Does anyone shift to a higher gear to back up??

Keep in mind that while the loads are higher forward, the force to move is transmitted only thru the teeth close to the ground. The wear motion of the bushings against the teeth happens only once, near the bottom of the sprocket.

In reverse, nearly all of the teeth in contact with the chain are transmitting power since you have to pull the entire chain along the top of the loop. This means there's significantly more motion between the teeth and the bushings to cause wear. You have two points of motion of the bushings in the teeth, once at the bottom and again at the top.

This means that for an equal load, the rate of reverse wear is actually twice that of the rate of the forward wear.

However, the reverse load is usually just the weight of the machine while the forward load is the weight plus the weight of what's being pushed. So, in the end the wear rates for forward and reverse usually wind up equal, more or less.

It's odd, though, when you first start thinking about the physics of the track operation.

Note, too, that a crawler/loader can easily have as high a load in reverse as it has in forward - the stuff in the bucket. So, this is why loaders seem to wear out their U/C's more quickly than dozers......

Hopefully, I've stated this in a way y'all can understand. If not, here's a link to an old IH undercarriage maintenance document that goes into lots of detail, and with drawings to boot!

http://www.tpaktopc.net/files/undrcarguide.pdf

Page 12 has the details on what's going on with sprocket and bushing wear between forward and reverse. Nice drawing to go with it, too.

Later!

Stan

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

That's page 12 of the old document. It's page 10 of the PDF the link takes you to.....

Stan

[dnormand25]

Thanks Stan. That was a nice post. Thanks for the document link also. If you guys were assessing the wear on a sprocket for use on a crawler, where would you set your grading for the use of said sprocket. I assume on a 60+ year-old dozer there's more reuse of new-old-parts than new replacements. So does it just come down to this one is better looking then the one I currently have?

David

[digitup]

Some where out there they actualy have or had sheat metal guages for this job showing the shape of one tooth and cup when new.4 guages in all on a large wire ring . I havent seen these things for years .But my dad had one for the sprocket and one for the chain link whear a third for front idler and top roller whear and fourth for bottom roller whear for a 450 series chain years ago,The John Deere sales man carried a set as well and would be able to tell you your track life with this And there was also a small tool that looked like a 4 inch carpenters square with fine notches on it that would also tell bushing life as well .Any one else remember these tools some where I have the John Deere part numbers for some of these for the 450 series.As the links havent changed much for years I am not shure when that size and pitch of link originated but they may date back to 1010 days if we could find a set and get them reproduced with a laser cuter ?I would amagine that it would be a handy referance tool for all of us. Digitup.

[Lavoy]

I have the gauges for 420-early 2010, and late 2010 and 350. I would love to have them reproduced, but the laser cost would be astronomical per piece with the engraving. There was a guy making them in plastic, but I don't know if he ever got to the Deere gauges, and/or if he is even still a round.
The gauges measure sprocket wear, link wear, pin and bushing wear, roller and idler wear. They are a neat deal, but I have only ever seen just a handful, and paid more than you would think for a little piece of aluminum when I did find them.
Lavoy

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

I recall our old shop having several sets of these around. I suppose they got sold with the shop. At least, dad didn't have any (and he'd have been the most likely candidate to keep a set).

Tools like these are always costly compared to what it'd seem they're worth because there's never very many made compared to the numbers of things made that the tools get used on.....

Stan