Need help with rewiring- going to Pertronix Ignitor and Pertronix Coil

General help and support for your Lindeman through 2010 John Deere crawler
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BigV
420 crawler
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Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:28 pm
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Need help with rewiring- going to Pertronix Ignitor and Pertronix Coil

Post by BigV » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:09 pm

About 4 months ago a man in his 50's and his son in his 20's came to my farm and had an unusual amount of knowledge about the crawlers I own, my tractors, etc.

The man claimed to be related to the original owner of my John Deere 420C, he did have the same last name but I couldn't verify anything else.

I had put a significant amount of work into my 420C and had bought it for $1200 and put more in it.

He asked me to price him the dozer and I priced it such that I could replace it. When I told him that I wanted $5000 for it, he went ballistic. It has all new hydraulic lines, new carb, engine was pulled and I put a kit in the gas Johnny Popper, I had a shop that rebuilds starters convert mine to 12v, I had put a 1 wire GM alternator on it with an exciter circuit such that it begins charging on cranking and will shut on and off. I had rebuilt all the hydraulic cylinders. I had the engine clutch redone, and more. I know counting parts, my time, the $5k was reasonable.

I have owned the dozer for 12 years. The man who wanted it took a pickup truck from the probate court's assigning of assets from the business. The person who was given the 420C sold the 420C for $800 to a scrap yard, with a parts machine. I bought both for $1200.

The man who came to my home immediately blew up and tried to tell me that it was sold for $500 and was his property. 10 years ago, I went through this once before. His dysfunctional family had tried some jackassery 10 years ago when I began restoring it. At that time I got all my paperwork, went to the probate judge, reported what was happening, he called the family in and told them that they were a gnat's privates away from fraud charges. All my BOS's are notarized, I had the copy of the driver's license and sale where it and a parts machine were sold for $800. I gave $1200. I have the paperwork where the probated estate gave the 420C to the party who sold it and the parts machine to the junkyard.

I had to leave to go to Fort Campbell KY and was gone for two days. When I came back, my 420C and my International TD340 had been vandalized.

I used my International 2400 and pulled the 420C to one shed and the TD340 I managed to get running and into cover. I had game camera footage of their pickup truck at my gate and it took a series of photos where the pickup truck was there for about 45mins. My local LE has taken the stance that the game camera footage just shows the pickup sitting, and that it is sitting in a public road; I have a grainy shot of the son walking by another game camera and it is to the area of the barns where I keep my crawlers. When I gave LE that, they decided to take the route that this was a civil trespass and I should sue in small claims.


I have finally calmed down to a point where I am resigned to the fact LE is going to do nothing.

I've replaced the hood on my 420C, and I'm going to try to fix the wiring.

At this stage I started at ground zero with a 12v keyed starter switch. 14ga wire runs from keyed starter switch(+) to positive terminal on starter solenoid, other side of starter switch (neg) runs to the new GM type solenoid that has the blade negative terminal. So I can crank the engine over. A 12v 800CA battery + cable goes to the starter + terminal, an engine bolt houses the ground strap.

My distributor was ruined in the vandalism. I bought one from Ebay and as well as an initial Pertronix kit. The Ignitor I recieved would not work, Pertronix asked me to send them my distributor and their pertronix kit, they made it work.

I have a red wire from the Pertronix Ignitor that I assume needs to go to positive on the coil, and I plan on running 14ga wire from red pertronix to coil +, run the black wire to coil negative terminal. The keyed starter has a pole for (IGN)- I am assuming I'd run a wire from that to the coil +, and then the coil negative will be grounded to chassis/engine. Then, when I turn the key off, I should be able to interrupt current to coil and it should kill the engine.

The 12v GM 1 wire alternator is run by a wire to the battery, there is a ground wire. There is a another wire I had connected to a lightbulb and the starter switch. The third wire is grounded.
Does this sound reasonable- am I screwing anything up ?

My tractor did not have a ballast resistor on it when I got it. It ran fine without it. I did not have any problems with it like that.

Jim B
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Re: Need help with rewiring- going to Pertronix Ignitor and Pertronix Coil

Post by Jim B » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:13 am

Your red and black wires to the coil from the Pertronix sounds right, as does having wire from the ignition to the coil (+) terminal. I would not run a wire from the coil (-) to chassis ground (I can see that making bad smoke); I believe the black Pertronix wire is the only wire that should be there just as there is only one wire from the coil to the distributor when it has points. You might want to confirm the wiring with Pertronix since there were issues requiring you to send the distributor to them. I'm surprised there weren't wiring instructions with the Pertronix. They would also be the ones to answer your question on coil compatibility.

It may be the way I am reading/interpreting your description, but your alternator wiring doesn't sound quite right to me, but it sounds like you have one that is modified. If so you may need to check back on where you got the alternator for proper wiring of the modification. A normal GM one wire alternator only requires one 10 gauge wire between the power source(+), be it ammeter, starter post, etc., and its (+) terminal; it self excites. A ground wire is optional. Your description sounds more like a 3 wire alternator which requires power to excite and often uses a light bulb in the circuit to prevent feedback that will prevent shutting the engine off, but I don't think you have that wiring correct, if it is a three wire. There are a number of descriptions and wiring diagrams on line for the one and three wire alternators. Research those to confirm what you have for an alternator, then wire appropriately. With any of them if you don't route the power wire (+) through the ammeter, if you have one, it won't show charge or discharge. (It does not route through a voltmeter if that is what you have.)

BigV
420 crawler
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Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:28 pm
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Re: Need help with rewiring- going to Pertronix Ignitor and Pertronix Coil

Post by BigV » Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:22 am

I wasn't sure about grounding the coil to chassis as this had been a positive ground tractor at some point.

The alternator is a standard 3 wire 1 wire and when I bought it, it had some module that was wired in with it that acts to excite it and make sure the internal regulator works. It's basically an aftermarket piece of crap for people who don't understand alternators.

I'll take it off.

Greasy1
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Re: Need help with rewiring- going to Pertronix Ignitor and Pertronix Coil

Post by Greasy1 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:39 pm

Jim,B is correct with his description of wiring the Pertronix igniter. Definitely do not connect a ground to the negative side of the coil, you will bypass the module and the coil will never fire. As far as the alternator you do have a three wire alternator, it wires as follows, one ten gauge wire goes to the large battery terminal, one wire from the plug goes to the hot side of the switch, one wire goes to ground and one wire goes to your bulb to sense system voltage. There are probably 20 million of this type of alternator in service. Where in western N.C. Are you? I am in Shelby.
Hooked on crawlers when I worked on my first Euclid. Just bought 1957 420c

BigV
420 crawler
420 crawler
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:28 pm
Location: Western NC, USSA

Re: Need help with rewiring- going to Pertronix Ignitor and Pertronix Coil

Post by BigV » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:44 pm

First off: Thank you for all your replies.

I am in Murphy NC, sir. Thank you for asking and the information.

I think the alternator I have is a one wire, it has the battery post, it has a place for a ground(I reckon that may be a mounting point), and it has a plugin that went to the charging light. However it has this aftermarket module installed and wired in and it's going to be a bear to remove it- it looks like something made by Painless(like the people who make the wiring looms for muscle cars and custom cars). I called Painless and they said with the module I could just run a wire from the battery post to the alternator, but they had long ago discontinued that module. They said that it was for engines that weren't going to either run long or run high RPM, and it excited the alternator to begin charging at a lower speed and also they said it was used on drag cars that were just run for a few minutes. Craigslist buy- I ought to shoot myself in the family jewels.

I have a genuine 80amp 1 wire off an Evinrude or a Mercruiser that used a one wire, it has internal regulator, I know the setup on it is much easier. It is also Delco marked. A local marine dealership got rid of Stern Drive stock of parts, and there were one wires that had NO INTERNAL REGULATOR. This one had the internal regulator, went on a 4cyl Stern Drive inboard. They showed me one installed and it was dead simple.

Thank you all. This has been extremely stressful. I appreciate the support.

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