40c clutch ajusted but

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Fredquebec
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:19 pm
Location: Quebec canada

40c clutch ajusted but

Post by Fredquebec » Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:40 pm

hi guys i just adjusted all the clutch on my 40c that i bought last summer with the jd7 tool, now the main clutch was new when i removed the engine but the lever where way high had about 3/8 between tool and flywheel, had washer between pressure plate and flywheel that i removed, the adjustment for the main clutch pivot point was all the way in. with the lever adjusted the pivot is all the way out and i still have 2 to 3 inch of freeplay before touching the clutch lever (did not start the engine but with the pedal all the way down i can turn the engine with the transmission in first gear). On to the steering clutch both pack are just above minimum spec and lever had 3/8 between tool and flyhweel. the spring are new same length then the oem one but they are not turn 1/2, both hook are in line. the bearing has to be on the end of the adjustement to be near the clutch lever and when i pull on the steering lever i get a knock in the arm and bearing seems to come back off(could not try the right side, missing a key way).

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
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Location: western Maine

Re: 40c clutch ajusted but

Post by Jim B » Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:02 pm

Welcome to the board.

I'm surprised someone hasn't responded on any thing for you yet. I'll ask a few questions for background that might stir other responses for you. It sounds like you have some things out of place or way out of adjustment.

Do you have the 40 service manual # SM2013 and a copy of the 286 service bulletin on adjusting clutches using the tool? Was your crawler running when you got it or was it complete but dead? Was it in pieces and you are fixing it to get it going? What have you disassembled and worked on? You say the main clutch was/is new, correct? You say the steering clutch packs are both just above the minimum spec. That means they are close to needing replacement, correct? It sounds like you used something for aftermarket or hardware store springs to retract the steering clutch cams, rather than get JD springs, correct? What is the condition of the balls and inserts, inside the quill that push the cam into the pressure plate? Any other info you add might help since people can't see just what you are looking at. If you want or need to post pictures contact Lavoy and get an account set up to use on the picture server for this site. There is info about it on the message board. If you have a picture you want seen right away to help explain; send me a PM here and I will send you an email you can send a picture to and I will post it for you.

Fredquebec
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:19 pm
Location: Quebec canada

Re: 40c clutch ajusted but

Post by Fredquebec » Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:35 pm

Seems i didnt made the adjustement correctly for the steering clutch, all work well know except for the bearing being at 3/4 of the adjustement (probably the worn clutch i suppose). the engine clutch ill have to remove again the engine. in the shop manual i see a washer behind the throw out bearing, i didnt check if it was there before reinstalling the engine, seems ill have to remove the engine again to be shure cause i still have 3 inch of freeplay in the pedal before contacting the clutch. would you have a pic of the clutch pedal position released. i wonder if the pedal and stopper arent worn out a little bit. the pedal on the stopper it goes back in direction of the seat a little bit not straight up.

I did the clutch fork adjustement with the service bulletin and the adjustement with the service manual. I bought the bull last may and used it all summer but knew the adjustement where off has i had to pull the lever all the way to the seat for it to turn and the right track would slip under load. At the end of summer the main clutch would slip also on heavy load. the clutch fork where way off and from what i understant looking at it the adjustement preloads the pressure plate spring so i guest i was missing a good amount of clamping pressure on the disc.

Many back yard mecanic seems to have pass on it. Starting to get used to it the ford 8n of my wife was in the same state when we got it back from the famely farm. been working has a mecanic for the last 20 year and love to work those old tractor. Clears the head of all the mecanic of todays car

PS sorry for the english, main language is french

Ray III
2010 crawler
2010 crawler
Posts: 609
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Location: Troy, NY

Re: 40c clutch ajusted but

Post by Ray III » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:25 pm

Clutch pedal definitely has something wrong with it. But there is an adjustment for pedal free play on the side of the housing, large nut with a screw in the middle.

When you pull your steering lever all the way back to make a turn, that's a brake adjustment, not the clutch. After you have the throwout bearing set so the lever begins to disengage the clutch after moving an inch and a half, then you make sure your brake band is tightened up and adjust the linkage for the brake to begin applying.

Fredquebec
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:19 pm
Location: Quebec canada

Re: 40c clutch ajusted but

Post by Fredquebec » Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:45 pm

The adjustement for the clutch is at the max so ill have to remove and see if the shim behjnd the bearing is there. Can someone confirm me that the image in the shop manual is correct and that theres suppose to be a shim behind the throwout bearing and if you have the dimension. If not there ill make one on the lathe

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
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Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: 40c clutch ajusted but

Post by Jim B » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:34 pm

I don't have the service/shop manual for a 40 but I looked at the John Deere on line parts book (PC862) and there is no shim behind the main (engine) clutch throw out bearing. There is a felt washer (item key # 12) behind the throwout bearing. The felt washer also shows up behind the throwout bearing in the service manual I have for a 420/430. What you are seeing in your shop manual may be the felt washer the 40 parts book and the 420/430 service manual show. The felt washer (part number M225T, about $13.25 US) is 41.275mm for ID, 60.325 for OD, and 9.525 thick. Check with Lavoy if you need one, he might have one for less.

Here is a link to the on line parts catalog, if you don't have it. This should open to the drawing of the clutch. You can use the arrows in the boxes on the right side to scroll pages or click on the words "0 Non Sectionalized Catalog" and it will take you to the index.

https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sid ... gId/140582

Fredquebec
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:19 pm
Location: Quebec canada

Re: 40c clutch ajusted but

Post by Fredquebec » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:19 am

Numver 12 is what im talking about. Now i just need to remove the engine again 😔 to check if its there. Maybe they didnt put it back on when they did the clutch. Thanks for confirming

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
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Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: 40c clutch ajusted but

Post by Jim B » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:34 am

I can not say for certain, but that felt washer may go up on the shoulder that the throwout bearing stops against, I don't think it affects the position of the throwout bearing, just helped contain grease in the bearing. It wouldn't seem right that a compressible material would be used for spacing. I don't remember one on my 430 throwout bearing carrier behind the bearing. Hopefully Lavoy or someone with better knowledge of the felt washer will respond.

fundytides
440 crawler
440 crawler
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Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:41 am
Location: Saint John, NB, Canada

Re: 40c clutch ajusted but

Post by fundytides » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:30 am

I had a similar problem when I replaced the engine clutch on my 40c. Too much free play and clutch wouldn't completely disengage. Removed the engine, adjusted the clutch fingers with the JD tool and repaired wear on the throw-out bearing carrier and that solved my problem.
have 40c 4 roller crawler, 1927 Ford T Touring car, 1931 Ford A Roadster, 1951 Standard Vanguard Saloon. Never a dull moment!

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Lavoy
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Re: 40c clutch ajusted but

Post by Lavoy » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:45 am

Felt washer is inside of the carrier, has no effect on the problem being discussed here.
I would look at accumulated wear on all the pins, clutch pedal shaft, clutch pedal shaft bushing, linkage rod from pedal to throwout bearing yoke bent, and adjust the pressure with the JD7 gauge. A little excess play is irrelevant, as the clutch wears, it will go away.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

Fredquebec
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:19 pm
Location: Quebec canada

Re: 40c clutch ajusted but

Post by Fredquebec » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:25 pm

Bummer i tough it was a real washer not felt. The clutch fork are adjusted with the jd7 tool so trouble is not there but i have a fare amount of play in the clutch pedal shaft. Anyway ill have no choice but to remove the engine to go see what happening. At least i checked it has soon has the engine was on, didnt reassemble anything else.

Fredquebec
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:19 pm
Location: Quebec canada

Re: 40c clutch ajusted but

Post by Fredquebec » Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:41 pm

Found the trouble. The bolt that hold the pedal to the clutch shaft was not torqued enough. Found out after having removed the transmission extension 😕 anyway i took the time to clean clutch and brake shaft that where dragging together. Now it all loose and well lubricated. So im half way to having a working bull 😀😀

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: 40c clutch ajusted but

Post by Jim B » Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:07 am

Good to hear you found the problem and got it repaired. Its always nice to know what solved a problem and it completes the post, doesn't leave folks wondering if it got fixed.
Best regards,

Jim

fundytides
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:41 am
Location: Saint John, NB, Canada

Re: 40c clutch ajusted but

Post by fundytides » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:31 am

I think there should be a key to hold the clutch pedal in proper alignment to the shaft. Hard to maintain alignment with just the bolt. If the key is there, make sure it or the groove are not worn a lot.
have 40c 4 roller crawler, 1927 Ford T Touring car, 1931 Ford A Roadster, 1951 Standard Vanguard Saloon. Never a dull moment!

Fredquebec
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:19 pm
Location: Quebec canada

Re: 40c clutch ajusted but

Post by Fredquebec » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:40 pm

Keys there but worn down. Theres medium to major wear on this think so just retorquing the bolt will have to do has i dont want to spend to much on it. Found out today that oil change where optionnal on it, even the oil filter plate are all mest up. Sad but that one is not worth a complete restauration, just trying to make it last 1 or 2 summer more.

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