Question on 2-53 retrofit.

VJW · Post by **VJW** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:02 pm

I,ve had my eye on a 440 diesel that needs an engine. Does anyone know if a 2-71 would bolt in the place of a 2-53 Detroit? Probably not the best solution especially to a collector but I've always wondered if this could be easily done and if so whats involved. Thanks, Vic.

Post by **Lavoy** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:38 pm

The 2-53 in the 440 uses a Deere specific back plate to bolt up to the Deere bellhousing. I do not believe that a 2-71 shares the same rear cover as a 2-53. 2-71 is also physically larger than a 2-53, and there is not much room there tostart with. Plus, the additional HP would shred everything behind it in short order.
Lavoy

VJW · Post by **VJW** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:01 pm

Lavoy wrote:The 2-53 in the 440 uses a Deere specific back plate to bolt up to the Deere bellhousing. I do not believe that a 2-71 shares the same rear cover as a 2-53. 2-71 is also physically larger than a 2-53, and there is not much room there tostart with. Plus, the additional HP would shred everything behind it in short order.
Lavo y

That all makes good sense. So if I wanted to drop in a 2-53 say out of a gen-set I would first need to remove the back plate off the old engine right? Vic.

digitup · Post by **digitup** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:44 pm

Detroit made 253s in a variety of bell housing configurations and probably speck built for Deere for this application I know there were eight different builds of 353s for different applications In the early years alone. You will need a specific block or it will be a nightmare I know where there is a [435?] tractor with one in it unrestored and that Detroit just fit in it I am shure that you would have a job just retrofiting the motor in a gaser I also bet that this brings out all kinds of week spots in the drive train as well .As diesels have more torque .Digitup.

Post by **Lavoy** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:48 pm

The back plate on the 2-53 in a Deere is a Deere built item, and is obsolete as far as I know.
As to putting a power unit engine in, it will work, but there might be some other issues. I have seen it done, but normally they have to hack the hood open, don't know if the head is different or what the deal is. Also, the 2-53 in a Deere is de-tuned as far as RPM and power, so you would want to make sure to get that part the same. I think fuel pump may be different as well, I know a friend of mine had trouble with that.
Lavoy

Howard Yoder · Post by **Howard Yoder** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:10 pm

I bought a 1010 that someone put a 253 in that was not the same as the ones in the 440 and they had to butcher the frame all up to put it in one because the starter was on the front side of the bellhousing and also the oil filter on the other side on bottom. It was a mess.

VJW · Post by **VJW** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:31 pm

Sounds like a headache fellas. You convinced me to look for one with either a restorable 53 series or better yet, one that is in good working order. Since were on the subject, I've talked to a retired JD dealer and a crawler collector on the subject of the 2-cylinder GM diesels. Both men didnt have much good to say about them. I've looked at probably only a half dozen of them and most seem to be pretty much beat. The gas jobs on the other hand seem to be going strong and there seem to be more of them around at least in these parts. The diesel version intriques me though, enough so that the wife has asked if I'm thinking of getting another piece of junk. I'd like to hear some comments on the diesel verses the gas version of the 440 crawler pro and con. Vic.

Howard Yoder · Post by **Howard Yoder** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:10 pm

either one is a good machine as long as you use common sense with them the main thing is to try to get one with a decent undercarriage to save you a lot of money.

VJW · Post by **VJW** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:50 pm

What is a good ball-park fiqure on normal overhaul for a 2-53? (rings, pistons, main & rod bearings,sleeves, and gaskets)

What would the blower cost to rebuild?

hunter41mag · Post by **hunter41mag** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:55 pm

Hi,

Ebay has a jd 440I wheel tractor with the diesel engine listed in Arizona.
Currently at $ 9.99 with no minimum. Says engine turns over but did not have it running. Maybe a good source for a rebuildable diesel engine in the 440, depend on shipping cost? Tractor is missing other items and seems would be to expensive to make whole.

Here is the info:
JOHN DEERE 440 3 CYLINDER GM SUPERCHARGED OLIVER MASSEY Item number: 190062826049

Firts part says 3 cylinder diesel engine but they added a note and corrected it to the GM 2-53.

Don
Eastern PA
440IC

Post by **Lavoy** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:49 pm

I think a lot of the so called problems were lack of maintenance. If a plug fouls, you have to replace it. If an injector gets a little bad, it will still run, and no one bothers to fix it.
A big beef on the 53 series engines in general is that they are hard to start, and they are. But, the N series pistons pretty much eliminates this problem if you do the rest of the engine correctly.
Another beef was torque, but if you look at a spec sheet, the diesel is about 10 ft-lbs more torque than the gas, and has a better torque curve.
I don't know about the little ones, but if you run one of the larger two stroke Detroit's at lower rpm, and consistently pour the coals to them, I have heard that you can cause damage. The theory I heard is that a Detroit puts out the same fuel at idle that it does at full speed if you open the throttle, so in effect, you can overfuel them at low speed.
Lavoy

VJW · Post by **VJW** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:41 am

Interesting. Tell me more about these N-series pistons that facilitate easier starting. If and when I get to rebuilding one of these bad boys I would want to do the job right and make sure I put a set in. Can you tell the difference by looking at them? I think you said this before, but how many diesel verses gas 440's did Deere turn out?
Vic

Post by **Lavoy** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:05 am

Production figures:
440IC-9855
440ICD-6679
Total-16,534

The N series pistons are an update, and are the only pistons available. They raise the compression by about 4 points. The way it was explained to me is that the bore diamater of the 53 series is so small, that too much of the heat generated by compression is absorbed by the engine itself too fast. When the pistong gets to the top of the stroke and the injector sprays, there is not enough heat left to ignite the fuel. The higher compression pistons build more heat and alleviate this. I have also heard that it is critical to make sure that the valves are not sunk in the head, as this increases clearance volume and lowers the compression ration some. It may be slight, but every little bit helps.
Injectors should be replaced at the same time as they have changed as well.
Lavoy

VJW · Post by **VJW** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:54 am

Thanks for the tips. Been looking at a couple of options and trying to do a little homework also. One fella has one that was a past relatives restoration project but never completed it. He says the tracks were re-pinned and bushed and some rollers were replaced. Missing the engine which was gas and some other parts he can't find. Wants $2000 for it. Another guy has a diesel that looks decent but said the engine is trashed. Wants $2000 for it also. I have not had a chance to get out to look at em but plan on it this weekend. I don't mind another project but don't want to put a ton of money into something before I see the fruits of my labor if you know what I mean.

Vic

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