Starting my 44o0

Doc in Vermont · Post by **Doc in Vermont** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:20 am

I can't get my 440 started. I have a new, fully charged battery, which cranks the engine only slowly. I used a shot of starting fluid. I noticed that the positive and negative cables heated up, and there were sparks at the negative terminal.

It has a fairly new generator connected per the manual. The Deere dealer explained how to polarize it, but I may not have done it right. I'm not a diesel mechanic.

Can anyone offer some ideas on what I may be doing wrong?

Doc

mapleshade · Post by **mapleshade** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:02 am

Hi Doc
I am definitely not a diesel mechanic but I have a couple of ideas. When you say the cables heat up I would suspect a poor connection someplace. Make sure your ground is good. Sometimes a little paint at the battery cable ground on the engine, or between the starter and the block can cause problems. Hook a booster cable or other heavy wire from the battery ground right to the starter and try it. That eliminates any vehicle poor grounds. Also make sure the battery cable ends are good. Sometimes the green crud goes up under the cable insulation and causes resistance. Resistance is heat.
Cheers,
Barry

Post by **Lavoy** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:49 am

Is it gas or diesel? Did you buy a battery with enough cold cranking amps? Did you reuse the old cables and ends, or replace them?
Lavoy

jac · Post by **jac** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:50 am

If the engine is not cranking fast and the cables are heating up, my guess is a poor connection or weak battery. Check all cable connections to make sure they are tight and clean. Also, if this is a diesel, make sure you have heavy cables (1/0 or 2/0) from the battery to the starter and ground. I tried standard car battery cables on my 440ICD and I ended up replacing them immediately since they were heating up. Once I had good battery cables and a fully charged battery, it turned over very good.

See recent posting from "ggfossen" about polarizing a generator.

FYI: you will not like the price of heavy duty battery cables!!!

Jimmy in NC · Post by **Jimmy in NC** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:40 pm

I found with my 420 on 6v I have to use 2/0 welding cables made into battery cables. Local battery shop (Batteries Plus) made them while I waited and I don't remember them being all that more expensive than what automotive cables were and good gosh did they make a difference. If you have heat that's power loss and if you have sparks that's a poor connection. These old girls are a lil picky about thier starting system.

Jimmy in NC

Howard Yoder · Post by **Howard Yoder** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:05 pm

The only thing I haven't seen mentioned above is it could be your starter dragging. If you have good cables and good conections take your starter off and have it checked out. Don't use any more either until you get it cranking good. Deisels have to spin over pretty good to start. Good Luck

wwattson · Post by **wwattson** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:39 pm

Seems like if you are seeing sparks at the negative terminal, the connection has to be loose or dirty. If you didn't replace the battery cables with smaller cables, it would lead you to either the battery post connections or the cable end crimps as being the problem.

JD440ICD2006 · Post by **JD440ICD2006** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:09 am

DANGER, "sparks at the negative terminal". I would get to the bottom of the problems before I ever turned the key again. I'll tell you why. About 15 years ago, I was setting the timing on my old Nissan pickup truck with a timing light. The engine was running obviously. As I got it where I wanted, I laid the timing light down to tighten the bolt on the distributor. I accidentally laid the metal timing light across the battery terminals. Without further ado, it caused sparks and the battery exploded. I was lucky, I got the acid washed off in a hurry so no permanent burns, but, I did lose some hearing in my left ear.
My point, you NEVER want a spark near the battery. gases are escaping all the time. It does not take much to set it off.
Now, with that behind us, pull the starter as was said earlier. Have it checked out to be sure it is not dragging or shorted out. Next, replace the cables. I know it is not what you like to hear, but put some meat (02) on there for cables and you will rule out that issue. Be certain you have a good ground connection with no paint between the lug and the frame.
Put some terminal spray on both terminals, this helps cut down on corrosion.
Charge your battery and be sure it will hold a charge and is high enough CCA (cold cranking amps) for the 440 ICD.
I hope this helps, let us know how it comes out.

Jimmy in NC · Post by **Jimmy in NC** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:12 pm

You've had all good advise so far but I was recently experiencing similar issues with a 420. I had 2/0 welding cable made into battery cables last time I went round and round with this crawler. Battery charged and tested ok (so I thought). Cleaned all the connections and was still barely able to get it to roll over one compression. It would hardly turn the motor over w/o plugs.. I was stumped.

I finally pulled the battery again and pulled multiple load tests... 340A at a time.. turns out the battery will load for about 10 seconds.. then dies off to zero. Also load testing it showed a cell bubling heavily.

Went and bought a NEW battery dated 12/21/06. Put it in and the same problem. I was throughly frustrated... until.. I checked voltage on the new battery.. 3.5V!!

Took the NEW battery back and got another battery... well.. with all cleaned terminals, fresh battery, a good starter.. I'm affraid the ring gear will come off.

Point.. never overlook simple things. I was scratching my head assuming since the battery load tested ok the first test it was ok.. and it wasn't.

Jimmy in NC

JD440ICD2006 · Post by **JD440ICD2006** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:16 pm

Jimmy, Another excellent point. A good battery load tester is a must for any one dealing with these. I have had batteries last 6-8 years, but that is the exception. I have also had them die right after the warranty ran out.
(How do they make them do that, right on time?)

Jimmy in NC · Post by **Jimmy in NC** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:23 am

I'm pretty sure I killed this battery since the tractor sat for a little over a year. I had a final drive off and was working on a bunch of problems with it but in the mix I had an internship in another state for 6 months, graduation from NC State University, change jobs... etc. Life happened.

It's rolling now and it starts.. now to hunt why the charging system doesn't want to perform.

Keep us posted about the 440.

Jimmy in NC

hunter41mag · Post by **hunter41mag** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:12 pm

Hi,

The only load testers that can be counted on to be reliable are carbon pile load testers. The toaster oven style with a toggle switch will more times pass a weak battery where the carbon pile will fail it. The newer electronic load tester are better but are usually battery specific (maintenance free, semi-maintenance free or standard type) and can also vary its results depending on manufacturer of the battery.

The big draw back to a carbon pile load tester is they are expensive $$$$

All batteries should be load tested with a carbon pile to 3x amp hr rating or 1/2 CCA for 15 seconds. If the voltage does not meet minimum at the end of 15 seconds than it needs charging or replacement. Before load testing any battery it should meet minimum voltage and specific gravity levels otherwise load testing will be a waste of time.

Don
Eastern PA
440IC

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Starting my 44o0

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