420c float

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gregjo1948
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420c float

Post by gregjo1948 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:28 pm

Wondered if a 420C dozer come with a float position on the blade control valve. This one I just acquired doesn't have a float position.
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford

Jim B
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Re: 420c float

Post by Jim B » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:38 pm

May be, a lot of things likely have happened to your machine since it was built, including a possible valve change or two. Depends on what the valve and control handle on it is. Can you post a couple pictures of the valve, both ends of the spools and the control handle. Do you know what model the blade is? If you have pictures, but can't post them, send me a PM and I'll give you an email you can send them to and I'll post them for you.

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gregjo1948
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Re: 420c float

Post by gregjo1948 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:58 am

Thanks Jim. It appears to have the original control lever but, I'm not sure about the valve body. Never posted pics--don't know how. Not too clever with a computer.(wrong generation) I don't have the blade attached yet. I need to get a pivot pin and I'm not sure whether to use soft steel or hardened. I'm thinking a soft pin would allow the pin to wear instead of the orifices it rides in. I ran soft copper lines to, what I think is suppose to be, remote hydraulics. It's the way it was before I got this machine. I don't know it the copper will withstand the pressure. The copper runs into, what I think is, a diverter for the remote hydraulics. Not sure how that thing works either. I think it is used to choose between the blade or the remote using only one control lever. WOW--getting dumber as I get older.
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 420c float

Post by Stan Disbrow » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:15 am

Hi,

The original dual valve with rods to the handle setup has a float position. There is a tang on the handle you have to flip to cause the handle to remain in the down position to let it float.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

Jim B
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Re: 420c float

Post by Jim B » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:18 am

Good morning,

If it is an original valve (two spools controlled by one lever), they often had float by pushing the lever forward as it would be for power down and then releasing the latch on the side of the lever. That way both spools move so they are open to return oil and the blade or remote will float. The latch resets when you pull the lever way back. I would use standard clevis pins in the linkage. I have made pins from grade 5 bolts as well. Found a picture of the valve on my 430.
Image

It could have something for a diverter valve to allow using the blade or remote cylinder from the one control valve. as for the lines, I would have expected steel, not copper. Personally I would have replaced with 2 wire hydraulic hose, if possible.

The fixes for things depend on what you want for a finished product, 100% original condition or working condition.

Sent you a PM.

Jim

I see Stan got the lever info for you while I was typing before.

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gregjo1948
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Re: 420c float

Post by gregjo1948 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:37 am

Jim B wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:18 am
Good morning,

If it is an original valve (two spools controlled by one lever), they often had float by releasing the latch on the side of the lever and pushing the lever forward as it would be for power down. That way both spools move so they are open to return oil and the blade or remote will float. I would use standard clevis pins in the linkage. I have made pins from grade 5 bolts as well.

It could have something for a diverter valve to allow using the blade or remote cylinder from the one control valve. as for the lines, I would have expected steel, not copper. Personally I would have replaced with 2 wire hydraulic hose, if possible.

The fixes for things depend on what you want for a finished product, 100% original condition or working condition.

Sent you a PM.

Jim
I misspoke about the model. It's a 40C. There is one lever , one long rod, and no latch on the side.
I couldn't use use hydraulic hose because of the fittings needed weren't compatible. Probably the lines were steel originally.
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford

Jim B
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Re: 420c float

Post by Jim B » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:43 am

I don't have any experience to speak of on a 40C. Looking at the single spool valve and control lever, shown in the 40 parts book for C, I don't see any detents in the valve so I would say it does not have a float position. Stan, Lavoy, or one of the other fellows may have a better answer for you.

fundytides
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Re: 420c float

Post by fundytides » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:10 am

My 40c has a float position. You have to remove the float screw cap on the control valve, and set the float screw in the float position (in cap, off seat). Also you have to remove the pin connecting the control lever to the control valve and turn the piston so that the indexing pin is up. Full description is in operators manual and service manual for setting the control valve for double action, single action or floating action.
have 40c 4 roller crawler, 1927 Ford T Touring car, 1931 Ford A Roadster, 1951 Standard Vanguard Saloon. Never a dull moment!

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Re: 420c float

Post by Lavoy » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:28 am

They have a float setting, it is in the service manual how to turn it on.
Lavoy
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gregjo1948
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Re: 420c float

Post by gregjo1948 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:21 am

Thanks guys. I'll see if I can "float" working. I haven't had a 2 cylinder JD in a lot of years and had forgotten how cute they are. I was surprised to see it has bottom 5 rollers.
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford

jd420u
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Re: 420c float

Post by jd420u » Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:00 am

I looked at the book on the 40C as far as float goes, and remember why I did not put mine in that mode 15 years ago when I bought it. There is no down pressure, just lift and float. That makes it hard to do any serious diffing with it.
Peter

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