Disasembly Weights and dimensions for Transport by Bushplane

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AlaskaMr
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Disasembly Weights and dimensions for Transport by Bushplane

Post by AlaskaMr » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:05 pm

Hello,
I'm new to the forum and have a odd situation. I live a 150 air miles from the nearest road in Western Alaska. I have horses that need hay, I need to clear 5 acres or so and grade it for flood irrigation. Our tress are very small and soil sandy loam that is easily worked.

I've found a recently rebuilt JD 440IC for sale in the state and want to know what I'm getting into to dissemble it into pieces that are no heavier than 2000lbs. The bush plane it would go on has a door that is 46" by 46" and a nice wide cabin. Where would you start? Ive familiarized myself with the construction somewhat. Would I have to take off the final Drive? Its a model with a blade that is inside the track.

An alternate question is whether the dozer could be stripped down to below 4000lbs and still drive under its own power on and off a ramped airplane?

I'm also interested if anyone had a smaller, say 420 with a blade and 3 point hitch and pto? I would consider freighting it to AK whole or in pieces I fix and repair most every kind of machine and know I can learn to reassemble.

Crazy I know, but that is what living out here is. Thanks, Morgan Beasley

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shinnery
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Re: Disasembly Weights and dimensions for Transport by Bushplane

Post by shinnery » Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:12 am

I do not know where in Alaska you are but is there any way you could get it shipped by boat or barge and get it close enough to drive the rest of the way? Might be easier than dissassembling and reassembling one. Maybe the AirForce wanting to play with a helicopter lift?
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dtoots1
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Re: Disasembly Weights and dimensions for Transport by Bushplane

Post by dtoots1 » Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:47 am

just for info...
i have a jd440ic, has a 6 way jd64 blade and i think a lite forestry cage or rop..
i have a total weight of just under 9000lbs.
cage or protector weight is probably 300 or so pounds, maybe bit less, i can roll the thing but need come along to lift back on.
i think specs on 64 blade says weight just under 2000.
hood is somewhere around 100lbs or so.

think mostly that is what can be removed to lessen weight....though is 2 skid plates underneath that are very heavy and could probably also be removed, guess weight around 150-200 lbs each.
and still drive

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Re: Disasembly Weights and dimensions for Transport by Bushplane

Post by Lavoy » Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:58 am

2000lb limit would be for the most part a total tear down. I had a 440 carcass with just trackframes and rollers, side frames, trans and finals, and it was over 2000lbs.
Just the bare crawler that would move is still at least 5000lbs.
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Re: Disasembly Weights and dimensions for Transport by Bushplane

Post by Lavoy » Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:15 am

The other issue I see, is unless you have other equipment on site, how do you reassemble 500lb-2000lb pieces. A cherry picker would do some, but you would need a concrete slab to roll it on, guessing you don't have that.
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Re: Disasembly Weights and dimensions for Transport by Bushplane

Post by original possum » Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:37 am

In wet sandy loam a small (not tiny) 4x4 wheel tractor with long cable and snatch block should pull out anything a 440 would push out. Maybe add a ground-mount winch moved by the tractor front loader. Constant hookups are a pain but if you plan to raise hay the tractor will be more useful in the long run.
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Re: Disasembly Weights and dimensions for Transport by Bushplane

Post by AlaskaMr » Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:30 pm

Thanks for getting back to me so fast,

I have can-dig portable 1200lb backhoe arm on a frame that can lift 2000lbs easily, look em up, they are really neat, made for mining exploration. That's how i've gotten my airstrip destumped, but its a lightly built unit on its last legs and cant grade, which is what I really need for flood irrigation. i will be constructing a crane if this happens to unload the 2000lb parts from the airplane as well.

Just let me worry about reassembly and trust that I've considered every logistical approach to this problem. Disassembly is the safest and most cost effective route. I could drive it off a C-130 at a big strip 40 miles away, but that's an extra 15,000$ in freight minimum and then the overland journey is not only going to put a huge amount of wear on the machine, but if anything goes wrong it will be a nightmare to fix/get unstuck. And that's not even going into the permits and laws potentially involved. You can legally build a trail 5' wide on state land, so in theory you could do that if the blade was under 5' though I'm pretty sure the routes cross some federal and/or tribal land. I would also need aggressive ice cleats and a winch, because you'd only be doing this in an extra cold low-snow winter. A heavy lift helicopter from a barge location would be around $40k after you pay the mobilization cost.

Hear you on the tractor being more useful long term, but its not useful at all if I cant grade out the fields flat enough for a mower. Soil is arranged in lumps and hummocks, but for Alaska it's good stuff. I would rather just use a walk behind mower bar and spend a couple days mowing. I've made plenty of hay and silage.

The machine I'm looking at claims to have a weight based on pulling the trailer onto scales at 7000lbs.
Lavoy wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:58 am
2000lb limit would be for the most part a total tear down. I had a 440 carcass with just trackframes and rollers, side frames, trans and finals, and it was over 2000lbs.
Just the bare crawler that would move is still at least 5000lbs.
Lavoy
what parts/steps are the biggest headache/most technical/require special tools? could trans and finals and motor be kept together and kept under 2000lbs? what about the length of the carcass? rough width of finals on the carcass?

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Re: Disasembly Weights and dimensions for Transport by Bushplane

Post by AlaskaMr » Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:32 pm

oh the machine im looking at was fully torn down 15 years ago and has been kept under cover and had little use since then, so im guessing things wont be a frozen rusty nightmare to take apart

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Re: Disasembly Weights and dimensions for Transport by Bushplane

Post by B Town » Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:05 pm

I am a big believer that anything can be done. Given time, money, will etc. the largest dimension pieces will be the C frame for the blade. I would remove the engine. Remove the right and left track groups. Remove the right and left final drives. That leaves the transmission and the rear center section. With a bunch of little pieces tin, rad, seat, etc. if broken down as described above, none of the pieces will push the 2,000 # limit you set. The dimensional size of the pieces may be more of a challenge. I’m pretty sure your plan will work. Worst scenario, you will break into smaller pieces. I have personally witnessed large pieces cut and then welded back once in place

Best regards, Bruce

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Re: Disasembly Weights and dimensions for Transport by Bushplane

Post by dtoots1 » Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:13 pm

Alaskamr,
looks like you really want a job!
ok lets look at it a bit closer.
shipping weight from factory is 5850lbs.
hood..close to 100
fenders..together maybe 100
seat chair..100
skid plates..300 maybe close to 400 total at most
now only other things to reduce weight are nose cone, radiator, engine and bell housing.
weights..nose a bit mote than 100
radiator maybe 40-50lbs
engine and bell housing, clutch guess maybe close to 800,
thats about 1650 lbs...
also drawbar gets removed to get belly pans off..maybe 50lbs...
makes best case weight at 4100.******that is using the skid plates at weight of 400

these machines do roll very easily so can come along or winch on c130

not sure if reverser needs to come off to get engine/bell housing....Lavoy can answer that is heavy too...mite drop oils to loose additional weight
gonna be close

best info i have been able to find...anyone else have more xact info?

hth
dtoots1
EDIT
ok here are a few dimensions
front to back tracks measure 97 inches, width across crawler is 60 inches...this kinda gets you to the limit! for trail width..blade off!
blade is 78 wide by 12 inches at pin
c frame pivot pin to blade pin is 70 by 33 wide
engine/bell hsg measures about 36x36hi 16 or so wide
bull nose guess at 24x44x12-14


landlocked? fly in generally?
can you skid sleigh dozer in? or truck it?

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Re: Disasembly Weights and dimensions for Transport by Bushplane

Post by B Town » Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:34 pm

dtoots1 wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:13 pm
Alaskamr,
looks like you really want a job!
ok lets look at it a bit closer.
shipping weight from factory is 5850lbs.
hood..close to 100
fenders..together maybe 100
seat chair..100
skid plates..300 maybe close to 400 total at most
now only other things to reduce weight are nose cone, radiator, engine and bell housing.
weights..nose a bit mote than 100
radiator maybe 40-50lbs
engine and bell housing, clutch guess maybe close to 800,
thats about 1650 lbs...
also drawbar gets removed to get belly pans off..maybe 50lbs...
makes best case weight at 4100.******that is using the skid plates at weight of 400

these machines do roll very easily so can come along or winch on c130

not sure if reverser needs to come off to get engine/bell housing....Lavoy can answer that is heavy too...mite drop oils to loose additional weight
gonna be close

best info i have been able to find...anyone else have more xact info?

hth
dtoots1
EDIT
ok here are a few dimensions
front to back tracks measure 97 inches, width across crawler is 60 inches...this kinda gets you to the limit! for trail width..blade off!
blade is 78 wide by 12 inches at pin
c frame pivot pin to blade pin is 70 by 33 wide
engine/bell hsg measures about 36x36hi 16 or so wide
bull nose guess at 24x44x12-14


landlocked? fly in generally?
can you skid sleigh dozer in? or truck it?

Definitely will need to remove right track unit and left track unit because of weight and dimension limitations. Easy enough to remove the engine, also

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Re: Disasembly Weights and dimensions for Transport by Bushplane

Post by AlaskaMr » Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:55 pm

Hey thanks for the responses everybody. The Dimensions are especially appreciated. The machine I'm looking at has a full set manuals, so that should be helpful.

Were 150 air miles from the nearest road and about 50 miles from the nearest barge navigable river. Odds are the few river boats left wouldnt unload on any suitable bank like they used to.

Fly-in only!

Any unusual tools I'd have to invest in? huge sockets? gear pullers? etc

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Re: Disasembly Weights and dimensions for Transport by Bushplane

Post by dtoots1 » Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:17 am

AlaskaMr,
normal tools and sockets...impacts, come along, chain hoist, fire wrench, box ends...up to 1.25 inch, and hanger for finals if you have to remove, is shown in manual and can make your own...get dozer up on at least 2-2x8's orralroad ties so can get under to take bellypans off...believe you can drop blade and c-frame off and back out of it and up on planks etc to start dismantling.
pb blaster..weasel piss or some type penetrating oils

good luck..you will know your machine when you done!!!

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Re: Disasembly Weights and dimensions for Transport by Bushplane

Post by Lavoy » Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:42 am

If you have that kind of lift capacity on site, I really don't see that it will be an issue. At one time I had the article where they broke down a 40 and put it through the blister widows of a PBY and hauled it to some island to build an airstrip for missionary work.
Without finals, crossbars, or trackframes, you should be able to leave engine, trans, reverser assembled I think. All of the pieces that bolt on to that will be under 2000lbs. Sounds totally doable to me. Even if you go down to smaller pieces, I don't see a drawback, they will be easier to handle on both ends.
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Paul Buhler
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Re: Disasembly Weights and dimensions for Transport by Bushplane

Post by Paul Buhler » Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:52 pm

Sounds like an interesting project. While doing the break down, replace worn bolts, nuts, missing washers, chase threads, lube where needed, check and replace bearings and seals if needed. Check steering clutches and brakes. Check undercarriage and make it solid.
While you are close to resources, these tasks are easier and more affordable. When you put your machine back together at your destination you’ll have a strong reliable worker. Sounds like you have the skills to undertake this project. Good luck.
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