Crawler 420 not starting...and worse

[Lavoy]

Yeah, we are below zero for the high next 5 days or so, not fun weather to work in.
Make sure ground cable is good too, I have had them be an issue. Either way, a rebuilt starter is really sweet once you have them done.
Lavoy

[bookman51]

Depends but i think so yes as left side. My 420 is a crawler loader so it wouldnt be nice on either side!! How ever My crawler is missing battery box soooo...... Yes I for got about the battery box I cant recall very well but I believe I had to take the battery box and door off the 40 to get to the starter, which would be identical to a 420...

Thanks, About a year or so ago I got tired of fighting the battery underneath the gas tank. Every time I wanted to change a battery or charge it, I had to take off the clutch pedal so the battery box door would flip down and I could slide the battery out. I got a plastic battery box and fastened it down on the fender (without drilling any holes) and got the biggest cable I could get from NAPA and ran it from the negative anode to the starter. Lavoy just wrote that the battery box has to slide back and the starter comes out on the right side. I am not sure if that is the right side from sitting on the seat or standing in front of the crawler, but I will get it figured out. On the RH from sitting on the seat there are some hoses in the way. I have had plenty of experience taking off the starters on my Farmall 340 and Super Cs over the years, but those starters are a little more in the open. Later this week I will drag one of my torpedo heaters to the unheated part of my shop and try to warm it up enough so I can work on the tractor. I suspect once I get the starter to the local electrical shop that they will have it 10 days or so. They do good work but are also proud of their work, if you get my drift. Thanks much.

[E.Huffman]

I am not clear on which direction it comes out for sure but you cant beat a good starter!

[bookman51]

Is this still a 6 volt positive ground system with generator and the saddle mount starter switch on the starter? Is the wiring correct for a 420 or has it been modified? Things get changed over the years and I just want to be sure of what you have before guessing at what it is.

Yep, still 6 volt positive ground. And Yep, it has a saddle switch. I have not had the greatest luck with them on my Farmall Super Cs. I probably will take off the starter this week and take it to the local electrical shop. I think it is the original (1958) and may well be due for a rebuild. The shop can inspect the saddle switch at the same time. I have a couple of big heavy cables on the battery, and I have checked and cleaned the connections. Does not mean I necessarily solved any corrosion or connection problem, but I tried. So, it may well be the saddle switch or a starter rebuild. Thanks much.

[bookman51]

I am not clear on which direction it comes out for sure but you cant beat a good starter!

Yep!!

[bookman51]

Yeah, we are below zero for the high next 5 days or so, not fun weather to work in.
Make sure ground cable is good too, I have had them be an issue. Either way, a rebuilt starter is really sweet once you have them done.
Lavoy

I do not have quite as heavy a cable on the positive ground. Maybe time for a trip to NAPA to get their heaviest cable for that too. Or the local welding shop. I have had them make me some battery cables for my other tractors with six volt batteries. Seems like it does not take much corrosion to stop them. I have lived both in Minnesota and Wisconsin. I had people there comment on how nice the weather was when it was 10 below and they were serious!! I do not recall quite the wind there as we get in Nebraska so the wind chill can be pretty wicked here, but a week of below zero weather is unusual, but obviously not unknown, here. I grew up on a ranch in western Nebraska, and it seems like ranchers are calving out earlier and earlier, and this weather has to be hard on the cattle. Thanks much.

[dtoots1]

I too had problems with my jd40s wheeled...6 volt ....i went tractor supply and bought small reel of the heavy cable and the.with crimp on connections for the bolts etc....still had problem starting so i actually lucked out with a trip to he electrical dept of the john deere ag store...they actually took it apart and checked it out and even took out the contact point for the hand operated trip lever..and put a new one in...about 5-6 years ago...walked out paying them $5.00.....i could not believe it, but that is exactly what they charged so was really happy, they do continue to get my business tho as you all know the rest that i get sure aint economical...when you gotta have it!...

by the way..the mounting on this old starter is simply 1 bolt w /locking nut thru tapered hole in the side of nosecone. and the old girl continues to start in Ohios screwy wet and cold...only protection she has is shed roof in manger...and i got the battery box removed so i can access starter and battery connections when charger needed, if sets too long.

if dozer stored outside...you may also need to drain carb bowl on these schlable carbs...find water in bowls

[original possum]

I hate to get in on this but if it fired on starting fluid and then quit then either the smoking wire was shorted and the cause needs to be fixed or your problem may not be electrical. If your compression is good it doesn't need to turn fast on the starter.

[bookman51]

I too had problems with my jd40s wheeled...6 volt ....i went tractor supply and bought small reel of the heavy cable and the.with crimp on connections for the bolts etc....still had problem starting so i actually lucked out with a trip to he electrical dept of the john deere ag store...they actually took it apart and checked it out and even took out the contact point for the hand operated trip lever..and put a new one in...about 5-6 years ago...walked out paying them $5.00.....i could not believe it, but that is exactly what they charged so was really happy, they do continue to get my business tho as you all know the rest that i get sure aint economical...when you gotta have it!...

by the way..the mounting on this old starter is simply 1 bolt w /locking nut thru tapered hole in the side of nosecone. and the old girl continues to start in Ohios screwy wet and cold...only protection she has is shed roof in manger...and i got the battery box removed so i can access starter and battery connections when charger needed, if sets too long.

if dozer stored outside...you may also need to drain carb bowl on these schlable carbs...find water in bowls

I took the starter off today. Not too bad of a job except for handling of cold tools. A little tricky getting to the nuts that hold on the starter and had to move around some hoses to back the starter out. Also a small tool box in front of the battery box and I had to take that tool box off---just two bolts. I took the saddle switch off and it definitely looks bad, at least to me. Took the starter and switch into the local starter place. We will see how it goes. The crawler is stored inside. I plan to put a new end on the small wire that melted. There may well be a short in that wire. Thanks

[bookman51]

I hate to get in on this but if it fired on starting fluid and then quit then either the smoking wire was shorted and the cause needs to be fixed or your problem may not be electrical. If your compression is good it doesn't need to turn fast on the starter.

I took the starter off today. The saddle switch does not look good but I took the starter to the local auto electric place to have them take a look and maybe rebuild the starter while I have it off. Yes, there probably is a short in the small wire. I will put a new end on it and see how that works. Thanks

[bookman51]

Yeah, we are below zero for the high next 5 days or so, not fun weather to work in.
Make sure ground cable is good too, I have had them be an issue. Either way, a rebuilt starter is really sweet once you have them done.
Lavoy

Will one of the metal web ground cables work fine for a positive ground? I have taken the bolt out to which the ground cable was fastened and cleaned it. I have had that problem with my 340 Farmall over the years. It is six volt positive ground.

[E.Huffman]

Yes that is what mine has currently

[bookman51]

Yes that is what mine has currently

Thanks, I go the starter back from the starter place They only had it a day. I think the main problem was in the saddle switch but they cleaned up a bunch of other stuff. I hope to get it back on in the next couple of days. It bench tested out just fine. Thanks to everyone for all the help.

[Paul Buhler]

Mr. Bookman:
I rebuilt my 420 starter a number of years ago. It’s pretty easy. I picked up new brushes, and new bushings, and starter switch online. Had it out, cleaned up, and disassembled very quickly. Happily, the armature and fields were still good. Crocus cloth cleaned up where the brushes rub nicely.
Sorry not an expert, so some of my terms may be incorrect, but if you are handy at all, it’s worth a try.

[Lavoy]

I stock all of the components to rebuild starters if need be as well.
Lavoy