Thread Search for price

General help and support for your Lindeman through 2010 John Deere crawler
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dab102999
40C crawler
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Thread Search for price

Post by dab102999 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:59 am

I tried doing a thread search for this and didn't find anything so have a general question. I think I am going to tear into final drive on a 420C. I know I am asking an open ended question and I know there are a ton of variables but will ask anyways. what would be a general low and high end average price to do a final. Again I know it all depends on what is wore our and what isn't but I am sure anyone that has been into a lot of them can give he a rough price to be looking at. Not sure as of yet if I want to do both sides or not. (right side seems to work good). But more then likely I will end up doing both because tracks need adjusted and I can't get either side adjusters to break loose at all [ended up hurting my back trying] so will probably drop both tracks to take assembly out so I can get heat on it and get it apart and freed up.

Buckhorn
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Re: Thread Search for price

Post by Buckhorn » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:24 am

I don't know about a price to repair a final drive, but the first place to start might be to do all the adjustments, and see if it fixes it. Lavoy, the person that runs this site, will give you an idea of what he sells these items for.
As far as adjusting the track, I just went through that. The easiest way is to remove the blade and lift arms, this will give you room to work on the inside adjusters. Then remove the 2 bolts with 15/16" heads, on each side if the adjusters, and remove the lower plate. Don't lose any shims. This will allow you to remove the entire spring assembly to a bench to loosen the nuts.
I was able to loosen a couple of them, by clamping the front nut with a pair if vise-grips, and using an impact wrench on the rear nut in the reverse direction.
Good luck

Jim B
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Re: Thread Search for price

Post by Jim B » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:28 am

I am wondering from your description if you have a final drive issue or problems with the steering clutches -- two different things.

The final drive is basically seals, bearings, gears and shafts in the housing. In my thoughts either that gear train works or it doesn't, they will bind up or make a good bit of noise if they are not right (i.e. bad bearings or gears). If it is doing that and you keep running it you risk not just the gear train parts, but the housing as well. If you jack the rear of the crawler up and get the left side sprocket off the ground does it flop around if you pry on it with a bar (bad bearings)?

The steering clutches are the drive link between the differential and final drives. Those can slip or nor work right, affecting drive and steering. Saying one side works better than the other sounds like steering clutches and brakes to me. Would you better describe what you are experiencing as far as the difference in the way the two sides work? Have you looked in the steering clutch housings to see if either side has oil on it? Have you adjusted the steering clutches and brakes, step by step, in the order given in the manual? Sometimes it takes going through the procedure a couple times to get things right.

As for pricing I would suggest an email direct to Lavoy (postmaster@jdcrawlers.com) for a private discussion on prices. His business is repairing and selling parts for these machines so his info will be reliable to the extent possible given the unknowns. And he provides this site for our use.

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Re: Thread Search for price

Post by Lavoy » Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:18 am

I'm thinking you are experiencing steering clutch problems, not final drive problems, but disassembly will tell the whole story.
There is no average so to speak, just no way to tell what is bad until it is apart. There are also other variables. Every time I do a steering clutch, I look at the final drive as well. The only time the pinion shaft can be serviced is when the final drive is off. If you do steering clutches, but save $15 by not replacing the pinion seal, when it fails, you get to pull the final again and throw away your nice new clutch components. Or, if the preload is off, and the bearing spins on the shaft, and ruins the shaft, now you are looking at a shaft and bearings, etc., etc.
I could list variables for a long time, there are just too many. So, for me, when a final drive is off, I look at everything related to it, connected to it, and in the vicinity. As a general rule, skimping on a crawler to save money will translate into hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars when it fails spectacularly at a future date.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

dab102999
40C crawler
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Re: Thread Search for price

Post by dab102999 » Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:52 am

Yes I meant steering clutches, and it is adjusted as far as it can go. Sorry that I said finals.

These are the answers I kinda expected I was just hoping for a rough number. Thank you all for your input. Is there a general site I can go to so I can see actually prices? On Lavoys site (unless I am looking wrong) I don't see prices and dont really want to call and bug someone until I actually get it tore apart and know what I need. But I also don't want to tear into it if I am looking at $2000 per side. Cuz once I have it tore apart I won't put it back together with inferior parts. I know that there are always unexpected expenses just figured you guys have been in them enough that I would get a, "If all is solid and good around 400" or something like that answer.


Jim B. What I have going on is left side works somewhat some of the time. And practically none under load as far as turning. I have adjusted it and it is to the max. And I have checked the oil (changed it actually). I knew when I bought this that it had this issue (thread search my name and can get previous post from me). rear end or final sounds good, reverser sounds good. No grinding, no clunking, no noise.

Thank you all for your input.

Jim B
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Re: Thread Search for price

Post by Jim B » Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:19 am

I looked back at your previous posts and in you "420 track questions" post, you were saying the right side had problems and you would use the left more for turning. Unless I am misreading it. A weak driving right steering clutch affects the left turn and a weak driving left steering clutch affects a right turn, when going forward. To clarify, when you are pushing, not pulling a steering lever; the left track is slipping, but the right one turns? Then when you pull the right lever, to turn right, travel stops since the left track is not driving?

Also, I hope you are talking about changing a different oil than what I meant. I was referring to having oil in the steering clutch housings, inside the housings accessed by the four bolt covers under the seat. If your steering clutch housings have oil, water, or any other liquid in them that is a big problem. Those are dry clutches, oil will let them slip and ruin them. Oil in them usually means leaking differential quill and or final drive seals, unless someone intentionally dumped something in them.

I'll guess you should expect to spend about $1000.00 per side to do the steering clutches and finals, if there is nothing major wrong. That is just a guess at an unknown. A steering clutch kit (pressure plate, brake band, steel discs, fiber discs, throwout bearing, and gauge to set the pressure plate) and bearing/seal kit for the final at a minimum, plus a few incidentals and shop supplies. Lavoy can say if that might be in the ball park. (I'm not thinking the cheapest parts of unknown quality you might find on the internet.)

dab102999
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Re: Thread Search for price

Post by dab102999 » Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:21 am

Jim B...OMG I had a brain fart.

Yes Right side as sitting on unit is my problem. To early in the a.m. when I posted today I guess. No no track slippage when using. Only problem is engaging to turn. (right one only works occasionally and when it does work it is not correct or as fast as left side to turn) And occasional track pop but I am association that with track looseness. Which is very loose. As far as oil I changed all fluids as per my service manual.

Section 145 refers to final drives so that is why I called them this but I am assuming my problems are clutches. (figure 145-10-6) Calls out housing as final drive housing.

Oil that was changed in final drive housing as per lubrication chart which recommends 1 3/4 pint in each bottom drive housing. I drained apporx that much out and put in using top fill hole. As far as clutches being wet when I had inspection cover off to adjust them I didn't notice any wetness going on so don't believe I have soaked fibers or clutches.

When I get on a stump that it wont push out, both tracks will dig down if I don't clutch out so I don't seem to have one side taking over when under a pull.

Hopefully I am describing things better. Don't know all the technical terms. And thank you for a rough number. I hurt my back pretty bad and am now just getting back to being a human and really want to tackle the driveway project I bought this for. after I get that done I am gunna decide just what I want to do.

Thank you for your input. I have restored a lot of two poppers in the past but never a tracked machine. And with that said last one I did was about 10 years ago so with increase in prices I wanted to just get a "educated guess" where I would be at.

Buckhorn
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Re: Thread Search for price

Post by Buckhorn » Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:34 am

So your saying neither track slips, I assume that's when pushing dirt. The machine turns left OK, but when turning right it's not as sharp. If this is the case, I would think the right side brake isn't working as it should. Maybe its not adjusted properly, or the lining is shot.
Can you look through either of the inspection/adjustment ports, and tell if there's any lining left on the band?

dab102999
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Re: Thread Search for price

Post by dab102999 » Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:59 am

I will try and look at it later tonight and see. And yes you are correct, when i am pushing something solid (i.e. stump) both tracks spin and dig. So I will look into brake band possibility.

So that will lead me to another question. Brake even if worn will it cause the symptoms that I have going on? I would think clutch should still work like it is supposed to. But I may be off on what i am thinking.

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Re: Thread Search for price

Post by Lavoy » Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:44 am

Still no real way to guess on parts prices, you just don't know what you will find. BUT, a real quick guess assuming no major problems is $600-$1000/per side.
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Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
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