40C All fuel running on 75% diesel

[tobaccofarmer]

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/e24m7srwui8q ... yeNvHkJkxa

[dtoots1]

what is the 25% ????
can't view on my old macbook

will all fuel run gas?

[tobaccofarmer]

Yeah the other 25% is gas. It will most definitely run on gas% however the purpose of all fuel was to burn less gas and more what they called tractor fuel in the day which to best guess was similar to a gas/kerosene/diesel type mixture . This is why there are two tanks , you must start on regular gas then once manifold has warmed up you turn diverter valve and switch over to the cheaper fuel . Of course today gas is cheaper than diesel/kerosene so it’s defeating the purpose but interesting enough to me .

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

All fuel was Distillate. The leftover parts of petroleum distillation. As one boils the crude in a still, the temperature rises in between the fractions then steadies for each one. Gas, Naptha, kerosene, No1 fuel oil, Diesel. What they did was open a valve to each pipe in turn when the temp steadied for each fraction. When the temperature was in flux, they sent the resulting output to a catch-all line.

Since this is fuel distillation, they called the result All Fuel.

It is roughly 60% diesel, 20% kerosene, 20% gasoline.

Don't forget to switch to the gas only tank and run for a few minutes before shutting off or it won't start next time.

Oh, and the cost of Gas was 42 cents per gallon in 1941 while distillate was 2 cents per. Hence why it was so popular.

WWII killed it off. Refineries switched to catalytic cracking of the hydrocarbon chains and recombination into specific products. So no more stills and so no more mixed up fuel output All Fuel.

Stan

[dtoots1]

Kinda wish my 440ic and 40s wheeled were all fuel!!!
be hie to have alternatives

[tobaccofarmer]

I don’t think Deere offered all fuel by the time 440’s were offered?

[Lavoy]

There were a few all fuel 440's built, but I don't remember how many.
Lavoy

[Buckhorn]

There were a few all fuel 440's built, but I don't remember how many.
Lavoy

Just did a search, and according to the johnnypopper.com site, they made only 10 all fuel 440IC crawlers.

[dtoots1]

out of curiosity, what was the actual engine? was it the same as gas engine but with 2 separate fuel tanks and injectors as well as spark plugs?or completely different in what way?

[DHC1]

Basically, the engine is the same, the primary difference is the intake/exhaust manifold. In the case of any all-fuel tractor the exhaust manifold is designed to heat the incoming fuel/air charge such that a heavier fuel can be ignited by the ignition system. For instance, cold, liquid diesel fuel burns slowly, heated, atomized diesel will burn a lot like gasoline. The all-fuel tractors started on gas since cold gas burns well and they should be shut down burning gasoline as well so that the carb float bowl is full of gasoline for the next start. Once started and the engine has generated enough heat, it can be switched to heavier fuel. There are no injectors or other specialized fueling for the heavier fuels, just two tanks for fuel, the fuel lines required and manifold. Depending on make, there could be other differences, but they are all relatively minor.

IH's early diesels also started on gas with far more complex engines where essentially the same engine used gasoline to start, then switched to diesel for operation, they do have injectors and a full diesel ignition system, but they are not "all-fuel" tractors, they're diesels. Look up diesel Farmall M - they're pretty cool (I spent many an hour on one back in the day).

Hope that makes sense.

[dtoots1]

anyone happen to know if the all fuel manifolds are still available? prices?
switchover?

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

There is a slight difference in the shape of the piston top in an all-fuel v a straight gas. But the main difference is the addition of shutters in front of the radiator to give higher running temps. You get to eyeball the gage to not let it get too cold. These were thermosiphon up till the 420, so not automatic with a fancy thermostat. Gets too cold and it quits running. So there was another rod coming thru the dash for you to use.

Hence the gas tank and valve to get it going. And the need to run gas thru before shutting it down. And the petcock on the bottom of the fuel bowl to drain the carb and fuel line when necessary to get the all-fuel out because you messed this up.

My M wheel tractor has the holes in the dash for the shutter control and all-fuel changeover valve. I can't recall if the 40 all have those like the M or not. My 420c does not. My M has a petcock on the bottom of the carb but the 420 has a pipe plug. There were a lot of fuel changes between 1950 (the M) and 1958 (the 420). I think all-fuel was still coming from some refineries in 1947 when the M came out but had to have been all gone by 1956 when the 420 came out.

The automobile engine changes which rapidly occurred in this same time period would have forced the end of any leftover distillation refining that the war hadn't already ended. And this also explains the rise of diesel during this same period. In the 1950s there were only a few diesel models. In the 1960s, more and more diesel models. In the 1970s, gas tractors became rare options. In the 1980s, no more gassers.

Stan

[tobaccofarmer]

The manifolds are not available easily and are extremely
Hard to come by in decent condition . I’m going to experiment with normal manifold vs correct all fuel manifold and test incoming air temps to actually see what difference it makes . The carb is also jetted differently for the heavier fuel and different plugs are called for on all fuel engines . The head is also a different part number in parts book, I just don’t know what the actual difference is ?

[dtoots1]

i notice that the compression ratios are different for them versus gas...gas being at 7 to 1 and all fuel show at i think 5.9 to 1?

[Buckhorn]

i notice that the compression ratios are different for them versus gas...gas being at 7 to 1 and all fuel show at i think 5.9 to 1?

Tractor data shows they are both 6.5 to 1

http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractor ... ngine.html