Deere 820/2010 track loader/backhoe Final Drive disassembly

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iowahill1
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Deere 820/2010 track loader/backhoe Final Drive disassembly

Post by iowahill1 » Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:30 pm

Thought it would be a good idea to start a new thread on an earlier post. The right side of our newly acquired Deere 820/2010 track loader backhoe final drive was full of water and had extensive rust and even dirt and small gravel bits in the bottom of the brake and clutch compartment, and much of the same in the sprocket drive housing. It appears that this has been the case for a VERY long time. Looks like someone else was in there earlier too as there were relatively new cotter pins and a missing cover bolt which probably was the source of water.

After draining the water and filling with diesel fuel for a good soak to free up the operating levers, throw-out bearing, pressure plate, etc. per disassembly instructions from the manual, I'm down to the point of trying to remove the final drive shaft which runs through the throw-out bearing. clutch pack, clutch/brake drum, and inner and outer bearings. I have everything loose enough to turn a slight amount, but cannot get the drum free enough from the shaft for removal Outer bearing was rusted to toast as I suspect the inner bearing to be also, but there IS movement in and out until the drum hits the side of the housing.


The large track drive sprocket gear is still frozen (probably rusted bearings) and will not allow the final drive shaft with smaller bearing to turn more than a small amount. So we appear to be free except for the seized drum spines to output shaft. Broken bits of the pressure drum/ springs were in the large amount of old rust and dirt debris dug out of the bottom of the housing, (talking about MANY handfuls). I suspect that perhaps that long ago the right side of the tractor was either sunk and left for a long time, or perhaps vandalism explains the many handfuls of debris I dug out by hand.

So my questions are as follows"

1) Is using more force with a suitable puller and 7/16-13 grade 8 bolt threaded into the end of the output shaft the best approach to break free of the drum splines? So far my approach with wedges and bridge arrangement haven't been able to make any difference. I see no practical way to get the pressure plate bolts off since the assembly will not turn as-is. Looks like heat might be the way to go, but would require damaging the pressure plate, steel and fiber clutch disks as collateral damage. So question #2 is...

2) Are there replacement options for the pressure plate, throw-out bearing, and clutch disks available if I choose to try to use brute force to loosen the drum from the shaft?

This is a later (s/n 200001 model) that does not have the shaft sleeve and set screw that earlier tractors had.

Bottom line: Looking for advice or tricks to free up the seizing between the output shaft and drum splines so that I can remove the final drive.

Many thanks, -Tom

[img]https://drive.google.com/file/d/12uSXMa ... sp=sharing[/i

[img]https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ND3WMU ... =sharing/j]
Last edited by iowahill1 on Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
1981 Ford 555 Backhoe, 1976 International dump truck, 1950 Dodge dump truck, 1990 Link-Belt LS-4300 CII excavator, , Cat D4 7U dozer, John Deere 820/2010 track loader backhoe

"Not knowing what I'm doing has never been a deterrent!"

Jim B
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Re: Deere 820/2010 track loader/backhoe Final Drive disassembly

Post by Jim B » Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:55 pm

Tom,
It appears you will need to give each person access to the pictures. I get a message to request access and expect others will as well.

As for parts, talk to Lavoy (owner of this site). Early JD crawler repair and parts is his business. You can email him at postmaster@jdcrawlers.com or call him at 701-361-1006 during CST business hours.
Jim

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Re: Deere 820/2010 track loader/backhoe Final Drive disassembly

Post by iowahill1 » Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:29 am

1981 Ford 555 Backhoe, 1976 International dump truck, 1950 Dodge dump truck, 1990 Link-Belt LS-4300 CII excavator, , Cat D4 7U dozer, John Deere 820/2010 track loader backhoe

"Not knowing what I'm doing has never been a deterrent!"

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Re: Deere 820/2010 track loader/backhoe Final Drive disassembly

Post by B Town » Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:42 am

Hello Sir,

I definitely agree with Jim B. Contact Lavoy for your parts needs. His parts are properly vetted.

Your case is likely the worst I have witnessed. I would power wash for a long time and then power wash some more. I would fill the case to the brim with hard water. I would leave it with water for several days to a week. Drain the water and see if you have gained. If no gain, back full of water and electrolysis with a sacrificial copper element, battery charger/ or battery and more time. This works well for preparing rusty surfaces such as gas tanks etc.

I’m interested in other ideas. But that is where I would start.

Best regards

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Re: Deere 820/2010 track loader/backhoe Final Drive disassembly

Post by iowahill1 » Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:55 am

Yes, Everything was power washed several times between days-long soaks with diesel and PB Blaster. I joined JDcrawlers forum and was in touch with Lavoy with some early information before I got to this last issue. I don't want to destroy a part that I may not be able to replace, thus my reaching out for ideas on how to free up the rust bond between splined shaft and drum non-destructively. I was leaning toward a more robust puller arrangement than I have tried with a grade 8 7/16-14 bolt screwed into the shaft end and a bridge to provide a deadman against a hardened washer and the bolt. I chose not to put excessive effort in tightening the bolt because of possibly having the bolt break off in the shaft end.

As for the electrolysis approach that has worked well for me in the past when I was rebuilding the shuttle and transmission on my old Ford 555 backhoe that had held water for over 12 years and had rust almost as bad, but not quite! The problem would be getting everything sealed back up enough to get the soda solution above the shaft and drum hub. I'm hoping for a better approach or suggestions, but electro IS Plan B at the moment.

If i have corrected my image loading skills correctly, here are photos of my backhoe shuttle clutch drum salvage that worked out perfectly and has had the old girl running strong and dependable for the last 5 years at my small mining operation:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vlzq2p ... sp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PRd_gj ... sp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1phSamw ... sp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e2JMlk ... sp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dXR210 ... sp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PaMd6F ... sp=sharing

Thanks,

-Tom
Last edited by iowahill1 on Sun Jul 17, 2022 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1981 Ford 555 Backhoe, 1976 International dump truck, 1950 Dodge dump truck, 1990 Link-Belt LS-4300 CII excavator, , Cat D4 7U dozer, John Deere 820/2010 track loader backhoe

"Not knowing what I'm doing has never been a deterrent!"

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Re: Deere 820/2010 track loader/backhoe Final Drive disassembly

Post by B Town » Sun Jul 17, 2022 12:03 pm

Water is the best solution to break the corrosion bond between the drum and shaft. This may not work the greatest with the hydrophobic liquids now in play.

Brute force with a bigger puller is okay, but you have to disrupt the bond first. My humble opinion

The 555 project looks very nice.

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Re: Deere 820/2010 track loader/backhoe Final Drive disassembly

Post by Lavoy » Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:01 am

I have steel clutch discs in stock, short delay to get the fiber discs, pressure plate is readily available, brake bands as well.
I would echo the water idea, nothing cuts rust like water other than maybe acid, and I have had mixed results with that.
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Re: Deere 820/2010 track loader/backhoe Final Drive disassembly

Post by iowahill1 » Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:18 am

Since my tractor is a later model that doesn't use the shaft spacer and set screw I may be able to get my MAPP torch into large pipe plug access hole in the case on the gear side of the drum and get heat to it. With a puller under tension on the shaft and heat I'm hoping that might work to break the bond. I have used dilute muriatic acid to flush rust out of motor blocks and cooling systems in the past, again with mixed results. Great to know that the parts are available too! I'm going to need inner and outer roller bearings for the shaft, as well as bearings for the drive sprocket. I have some 7/16" hardened washers coming in Wednesday to use with my puller setup, so hope to have good progress behind me then.

Thanks, -Tom
1981 Ford 555 Backhoe, 1976 International dump truck, 1950 Dodge dump truck, 1990 Link-Belt LS-4300 CII excavator, , Cat D4 7U dozer, John Deere 820/2010 track loader backhoe

"Not knowing what I'm doing has never been a deterrent!"

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Re: Deere 820/2010 track loader/backhoe Final Drive disassembly

Post by jimmydiesel » Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:35 am

Not mine but sometimes it takes 2 to make 1

https://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/grd/ ... 86309.html
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440 ICD 602 Blade Gearmatic winch.
440 ICD 604 6 way Blade Carco winch
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North Central Washington State

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Re: Deere 820/2010 track loader/backhoe Final Drive disassembly

Post by B Town » Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:56 am

That looks to be a great deal

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Re: Deere 820/2010 track loader/backhoe Final Drive disassembly

Post by Lavoy » Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:51 am

One other thing I forgot to mention is vibration. Vibration tends to loosen the rust, and allow whatever you are using for the rust to penetrate better and loosen the item up. Vibration while you have the piece under tension I have had work numerous times. A good air hammer goes a long way in removing rusted items.
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Re: Deere 820/2010 track loader/backhoe Final Drive disassembly

Post by iowahill1 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:34 pm

Yes, I have used my air hammer on the outer side of the gear to try to break the bond from the shaft, so far without luck. The service manual removal instructions show the shaft sliding out by means of the threaded end and suitable puller, but the parts manual shows a snap ring on the shaft next to but to the outer side next to the seal, and a set screw with lock nut on the hub which I hadn't noticed earlier. The service manual also shows a spacer held in with a set screw that was used on earlier model s/n's. Maybe I'm assuming this is the same set screw? There is a caution about pulling the shaft out so that the snap ring doesn't damage the seal, so that's not a concern.

I have pulled the lower cover off the final drive housing and can move the large sprocket drive gear about gear lash distance, so the drive gear isn't keeping me from turning but I WILL need new bearings and seals for it and the final drive shaft for sure. And I can move the drum (with effort) about the same amount. I'm going to try jamming the throw-out bearing in to release pressure on the clutch pack and see if I can rotate the drum enough to see the presumed set screw and/or snap ring through the large pipe plug access hole.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19SCqMw ... sp=sharing
1981 Ford 555 Backhoe, 1976 International dump truck, 1950 Dodge dump truck, 1990 Link-Belt LS-4300 CII excavator, , Cat D4 7U dozer, John Deere 820/2010 track loader backhoe

"Not knowing what I'm doing has never been a deterrent!"

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Re: Deere 820/2010 track loader/backhoe Final Drive disassembly

Post by iowahill1 » Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:22 pm

Happy to report that I finally got the final drive free and was able to rotate the brake/clutch drum around to where there is a set screw holding the drum to the shaft (as shown in the parts diagram. I can't tell yet what the head for it is (allen, hex, screw) because of sunlight glare, but have a borescope coming later today which might help. If not I'll wait until morning when it's dark and look through the access hole with a flashlight. With luck I should be able to loosen the set screw and pull the final drive shaft out, then finish taking off the rest.

I'm feeling pretty good now about getting this tractor up and running soon with new clutch parts, brake band, bearings, and seals. The left side clutch and brake seem to be in great shape and not something else to worry about. Progress updates will come as I get closer to finalizing the job. -Tom
1981 Ford 555 Backhoe, 1976 International dump truck, 1950 Dodge dump truck, 1990 Link-Belt LS-4300 CII excavator, , Cat D4 7U dozer, John Deere 820/2010 track loader backhoe

"Not knowing what I'm doing has never been a deterrent!"

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Re: Deere 820/2010 track loader/backhoe Final Drive disassembly

Post by iowahill1 » Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:43 am

Latest update on the final drive shaft removal: After being reminded by one of the Heavy Equipment forums members that the parts diagram shows a set screw holding the brake drum to the shaft, I found that by disconnecting the good left-side brake band link and blocking the clutch control back that I could now get the right side shaft and drum free enough to rotate by using a cheater and lots of diesel onto the clutch disks and pressure plate.

The problem was that being outside and with bright sun I couldn't see well enough into the pipe plug access hole to peer down and see where the set screw was. I picked up a nifty $80 digital bore scope from Amazon that I could now put down into the hole, then use a large adjustable wrench and cheater to turn the ring gear by grabbing onto the webs of the gear.

I marked the starting point with a paint marker on the drum and adjacent case edge and began slowly turning the ring gear and watching the camera. With almost half a turn of the drum I saw the set screw come up. It is a 5/16" square head machine screw that looks a little buggered up (possibly from someone trying to use a 12-point socket on it in the past). That screw has to come out in order for the final drive shaft to come out, thus freeing the pressure plate, clutch disks, and drum.

Dur to the difficulty I've already been through with the severe rust and seized parts and not wanting to chance breaking that screw off, I've opted to order up a 3/8" drive male pipe plug socket set (again from Amazon) that will have the correct 5/16 pipe socket to securely grab the head of the set screw. It might come loose due to the heavy application of diesel over the past couple of weeks, but if not I can get my MAPP torch down into the hole and use some heat to break any rust bond.

Here are some pictures of the setup:

The bore scope camera going down the pipe plug access hole...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16LDY0N ... sp=sharing

The camera...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v5lVwU ... sp=sharing

Blocking up the left (good side) clutch/brake control...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pZXc80 ... sp=sharing

This job was not for the faint of heart and was a test of patience and a few false starts. But I think I can see daylight coming soon. I hope what I've been posting helps others who might find themselves faced with similar challenges. More updates to follow! -Tom
1981 Ford 555 Backhoe, 1976 International dump truck, 1950 Dodge dump truck, 1990 Link-Belt LS-4300 CII excavator, , Cat D4 7U dozer, John Deere 820/2010 track loader backhoe

"Not knowing what I'm doing has never been a deterrent!"

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