440ICD Track shoes on backwards
- jimmydiesel
- 430 crawler
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:23 am
- Location: North Central Washington
440ICD Track shoes on backwards
I bought a 440ICD 602 outside dozer earlier this summer. The previous owner had replaced the track shoes and chains with some with better chains from a 440IC 831 track loader. The master pins had been replaced with 1” bolts. I ordered new master pins from Lavoy and installed them. After I got it back together I noticed the track shoes were on backwards. I checked the chains and they look to me to be on the right direction. I have done a couple hours of dozing with it and not had any problems.
If I turn the tracks around the chains will be backwards. I really don’t want to reverse all the track shoes if I don’t have to.
So my question is can I leave it as it is or turn the tracks around or is it best to turn all the shoes around?
If I turn the tracks around the chains will be backwards. I really don’t want to reverse all the track shoes if I don’t have to.
So my question is can I leave it as it is or turn the tracks around or is it best to turn all the shoes around?
440 ICD 602 Blade 3Pt.hitch.
440 ICD 602 Blade Gearmatic winch.
440 ICD 604 6 way Blade Carco winch
440 ICD 831 Loader
440IC 831 Loader
1010c Diesel 612 6 Way Blade
North Central Washington State
440 ICD 602 Blade Gearmatic winch.
440 ICD 604 6 way Blade Carco winch
440 ICD 831 Loader
440IC 831 Loader
1010c Diesel 612 6 Way Blade
North Central Washington State
Re: 440ICD Track shoes on backwards
The way the pads are now, they will tend to push dirt and small stones between the pads. Hard to visualize, but look at the pad on the ground, and look where the pads interact. The way it is now, it tries to scoop up stuff and jam in between the pads.
Lavoy
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
- jimmydiesel
- 430 crawler
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:23 am
- Location: North Central Washington
Re: 440ICD Track shoes on backwards
Lavoy
Is that like the nice way of telling me that I need to stop whining and just rotate the shoes.
Is that like the nice way of telling me that I need to stop whining and just rotate the shoes.
440 ICD 602 Blade 3Pt.hitch.
440 ICD 602 Blade Gearmatic winch.
440 ICD 604 6 way Blade Carco winch
440 ICD 831 Loader
440IC 831 Loader
1010c Diesel 612 6 Way Blade
North Central Washington State
440 ICD 602 Blade Gearmatic winch.
440 ICD 604 6 way Blade Carco winch
440 ICD 831 Loader
440IC 831 Loader
1010c Diesel 612 6 Way Blade
North Central Washington State
Re: 440ICD Track shoes on backwards
No, just an observation. I have a set on a 420 that is the same way.
Lavoy
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
Re: 440ICD Track shoes on backwards
Can you just 180 the track or does the chain have to run one way? Not different than backing up?
Re: 440ICD Track shoes on backwards
Chain is supposed to run in one direction.
Lavoy
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2900
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Re: 440ICD Track shoes on backwards
Hi,
The idea is you will be putting a lot more force into the chain going forwards than backwards.
Stan
The idea is you will be putting a lot more force into the chain going forwards than backwards.
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Re: 440ICD Track shoes on backwards
No doubt more force forward most of the time. I'm still looking at the chain picture and try to grasp why it makes a difference? Either way, you're pulling on the links. I was trying to see if it was also a factor of getting dirt in there.
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2900
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Re: 440ICD Track shoes on backwards
Hi,
In forward, the force is on the first two teeth. In reverse, the force is on all the teeth fairly evenly. In forward, there is greater force because there is greater load. Unless you are just going to drive it around at shows and not use it. Then it won't matter. As they are now, more force trying to press the bushings loose in forward. They are pressed into place in the links. So this is why the chain has a direction.
To better understand this stuff, there is a link for a PDF on all this in this post:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10123
Stan
In forward, the force is on the first two teeth. In reverse, the force is on all the teeth fairly evenly. In forward, there is greater force because there is greater load. Unless you are just going to drive it around at shows and not use it. Then it won't matter. As they are now, more force trying to press the bushings loose in forward. They are pressed into place in the links. So this is why the chain has a direction.
To better understand this stuff, there is a link for a PDF on all this in this post:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10123
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Re: 440ICD Track shoes on backwards
Thanks, I didn't think about the pressed in bushings. Makes sense now.
Gus
Gus
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2900
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Re: 440ICD Track shoes on backwards
Hi,
I think it won't matter if you don't work it hard. And there are lots of things to bust on these old machines if you work them hard. If you are in softer dirt, then the pads act like shovels, as the tracks tend to spin. If you are on firmer dirt then there is more force into the bushings because the tracks don't spin.
I also think you will know if you need to flip them as you use it. I would flip the assembly though, not each pad, if it came down to it.
Unless.... I can't tell in the pic.... If the outer part of the bushings are worn quite a bit and they were flipped to make use of the other side. You know, rather than pressing them all out and turning them.
Stan
I think it won't matter if you don't work it hard. And there are lots of things to bust on these old machines if you work them hard. If you are in softer dirt, then the pads act like shovels, as the tracks tend to spin. If you are on firmer dirt then there is more force into the bushings because the tracks don't spin.
I also think you will know if you need to flip them as you use it. I would flip the assembly though, not each pad, if it came down to it.
Unless.... I can't tell in the pic.... If the outer part of the bushings are worn quite a bit and they were flipped to make use of the other side. You know, rather than pressing them all out and turning them.
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
- jimmydiesel
- 430 crawler
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:23 am
- Location: North Central Washington
Re: 440ICD Track shoes on backwards
Thanks Lavoy and Stan
Since I first posted this I looked in the shop manual. The manual agrees with what Lavoy says about the shoes. It also shows the chains on the direction they are on now. Stan- thanks for the Dresser link very good info and answered some of my other questions.
The chains on it now are 60-70% I will leave them the way they are. I will put reversing the shoes on the “things I need to do” list.
I have looked at over a dozen dozers and excavators since my first post and the chains are all on the way mine are and the shoes are all opposite how mine are.
Steve.
Since I first posted this I looked in the shop manual. The manual agrees with what Lavoy says about the shoes. It also shows the chains on the direction they are on now. Stan- thanks for the Dresser link very good info and answered some of my other questions.
The chains on it now are 60-70% I will leave them the way they are. I will put reversing the shoes on the “things I need to do” list.
I have looked at over a dozen dozers and excavators since my first post and the chains are all on the way mine are and the shoes are all opposite how mine are.
Steve.
440 ICD 602 Blade 3Pt.hitch.
440 ICD 602 Blade Gearmatic winch.
440 ICD 604 6 way Blade Carco winch
440 ICD 831 Loader
440IC 831 Loader
1010c Diesel 612 6 Way Blade
North Central Washington State
440 ICD 602 Blade Gearmatic winch.
440 ICD 604 6 way Blade Carco winch
440 ICD 831 Loader
440IC 831 Loader
1010c Diesel 612 6 Way Blade
North Central Washington State
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