jd420 pics

[dtoots1]

Well Folks,

Was finally able to get back on the 420..had to remove my center housing (no reverser) because i neglected to put the woodruff key in the hollow shaft to the clutch pedal....this thing can give you the willys....the woodruff key is really special..i actually picked one up at ACE Hardware....5/32x 3/4 long
but had to grind it down for height...only needs approximately 1/4 inch height....rides kinda on the solid brake shaft pins in slot on hollow shaft and has locking slot in pedal clamp....now as far as getting dam center housing back in and bolts lining up for the bellhousing, that is another story...tighten...loosen....some more and some more...use deadblow few times and even get hydraulic jack on rear drawbar to get nose down a bit...and keep tighten ....loosen some more....finally it lines up enough to get started and move each a bit and tighten a bit and finally get er done.

now i gotta get on the steering clutches etc and get that back on...;.;then on to the engine etc etc etc....dash,,wiring
will see how it goes..

[Jim B]

Your gaining, keep swinging.

[dtoots1]

Well guys,

I am back to engine....it is now installed....am now at TDC #1...both valves..closed...so i check flywheel timing mark is at TDC...now check distributor and rotor is pointing directly at the #1 spark plug contact?????....flywheel is NOT at the SPARK timing mark.

So what does that tell me....Is my distributor out 180 degrees??...next 180 turn would be at the exhaust stroke...would it not??? Or do i need to turn the full 360 degrees to get to compression? My impression is if both valves closed that is compression stroke.

Remember this was not running when i got it/...head was warped...not telling what P.O. might have tried to get back running...

Been a bit long since i had to start from scratch..

[dtoots1]

Also,

Forgot to go into the final installation...it was relatively easier than removing the blamed thing...l..is really a pain trying to line it up and get directed into the carrier tube without damaging the blamed thing...once its lined up it does go a bit better.....however....i did need to use deadblow on the housing to keep it moving as it appeared to be catching the NEW brake band and i did not want to just jam the thing in using the bolts/nuts to pull as not knowing what catching or breaking....dead blow moves it just enough to get more threads on bolts without all the pressure from just driving them in.

Sure will be interesting to see if everything works properly...once i get engine going....

[Jim B]

Good to hear you are still working on your project.

You are ok with the rotor pointing at #1 when the flywheel is at TDC, that is the static timing, which should be right to get it started. Instead of the manual saying you should see x number of degrees advance at high idle (when using a timing light) as many manuals do, JD wrote the "spark" mark should be in the timing window when checked with a timing light at high idle. That is moved into view by the mechanical advance mechanism inside the distributor working when running up to speed. You should see the movement if you watch the timing marks with a timing light as you throttle from idle to full throttle, if the advance is working correctly. If the marks don't move as the speed changes you can have the opportunity to check out distributor rebuilding. With the engine running at high idle adjust the distributor to align the "spark" mark in the window and lock the distributor down to complete setting the timing. Don't worry if the rotor points a bit differently at #1 when you look at it after you set the timing with a light.

Keep moving forward.
Jim

[dtoots1]

Hi Jim,

Unfortunately I do NOT possess a timing light and never used one.., usually do this old school but it has been a bit long in the tooth since last from scratch.
I do have a meter that has a setting for 4 ..6.. and 8 cylinder timing...which i have not used as yet...again not sure how it would work for 2 cylinder ....though i do know that timing lights are a bit simpler..

[Jim B]

A timing light is simple to use and quick. Is there an O'Reilly, Advanced or other parts store near you? Some of them, maybe the one where you normally get your parts, have tool rental/loan programs, so you could get a timing light and return it, often at no cost. I don't think your meter will check the advance and set timing, it sounds more like you have a dwell tach meter.

[sonny]

Dwell meter wont work on 2 cylinder motors! --- only 4 - 6- or 8! Regular timing light works on all.

[dtoots1]

Sonny,
Found out that ...self contained units w/d cells will work on 2 and 3 cyl models....as are only 6 volt systems on these....though i do know can use later models with 12 volt battery side saddle to the 6 volt, will see once i can get the dry cell timing light.

Though i do know it gonna be hassle to see the timing mark....mine is loader with the 2 crossover metal hydraulics going right over the timing hole!

Half my wire were broken loose on engine end and the dash itself had been broken of along with its wiring....parts manual so far shows pics/breakdowns of parts etc...but does not show connections...locations etc...will research more on all that...working this long weekend on the old girl...getting there..slowly

HAPPY THANKSGIVING >>>YA'LL

[dtoots1]

Well Guys,

She finally starts up,,,good oil pressure..30psi., idles nice, old temp gauge still works, ammeter maybe....HOWEVER, we do have a problem...pulled plugs....number one oil and water/coolant in it....number 2 is good...did have machine shop do head and valves...new head gasket...tourqed to 85 ft lbs...maybe should have gone 90...will see what machine shop says problem is....also slop does come out thru exhaust...all over my nice yellow paint job...number 1 was stuck...so assume rings are also....will have shop check that or replace new...if find out why coolant???

did get to check steering brakes etc on each side so that works ok....

The old 6 volt battery struggles to turn her over so have to jumper 12 volt at starter to get push...if that continues I will rebuild starter and generator or turn to alternator for 12 volt.....does sound good when running....just have to see what problem involved...

Any ideas out there??

Dtoots1

[sonny]

My 420-c was 12-volt when I got it, so I assume that is whats needed and it turns mine fine.

[dtoots1]

Well,Guys n Gals,

I checked my head bolts and found each one of them just shy of 85ft lbs....on my clicker....I know i tightened each down to 85 ft lbs...Is it possible that these backed off....Before assembly i had run my tap thru each of these bolt holes and blew them out as well...

probably should take them up to 90ft lbs yet...i did reuse the 0ld bolts...

Now i am gonna check with machine shop in a.m.

[dtoots1]

ok folks,

Here is where we at.....appears that the head bolts did manage to loosen just enough to cause the coolant leak....My regular mechanic (friend) was actually here to help get her started since the old 6 volt system really wants to be hesitant and needs the 12 volt jump push...takes 2 people to make the jump and start....I also checked with my shop mechanic who did the head and valves....they also agree....just retorque her back just a bit past the 85 minimum...say 87 88 ft lbs and put her together...and of course fluids....

I had to consider everything and knowing i trust my shop technicians.....what did I do that might have had implications to this???...new gasket, proper copper coat for that....torque....??? so checked see what head bolts were at.....each just about a quarter turn to 85 ft lbs...so essentially they backed off after starting her up...starts almost immediately with the 12 volt push....and really struggles on 6 volt..both starter and generator have been gone thru at repair shop...fact is put new bendix in it..All wiring upgraded to 12 ga and 10 ga and 2 gauge for battery connections and clean ground...

so why the struggle?? will recheck ground contact, onliest thing i can think of...

and dont forget....clean up paint job!!!

[dtoots1]

Well Dag Nab It!!

Still getting water in oil...so back to drawing board....engine will go to shop and find problem..magnaflux the dang thing and go from there....

Just in case....anyone have a good 420 engine nearby hereabouts???

Shoulda kept my old 440 spare engine, bell housing and reverser to at least have something to try if'n this thing beyond help...

[smitty906]

I know your frustrations , im at the end of a 440 i tractor rebuild.
I had my starter rebuilt and put cables on the size of my thumb ......it rolls over maby half a revolution and comes to life .
Still 6 volt
As for the head bolt issue I put some oil on my bolts and torqued down to spec , one wouldnt think a few less footlbs would allow a water leak into cylinder. I wonder if one could pressurize radiator and put a camera or scope into cylinder and look for leak .