40C not turning to the left - fiber clutch thickness

[pauly68]

Good morning Everyone,

I posted some time ago that I inherited my dad's 1955 40C. He bought it new and from what my mother told me when she was alive, he did it without asking her! Brave man, for sure! It needs some TLC but it's mechanically pretty good. Runs great! Biggest issue is that it won't turn to the left.

Well, I finally had some time to take the old girl apart and see if I could figure out what was amiss. I had tried to adjust it per the manual, but gained nothing. Pulling back on the left lever resulted in a snapping sound down inside. The throwout bearing was never getting to the point of touching the pressure plate. After getting inside it, everything seemed to be in good order and clean. Throwout bearing looks original but spins very freely and all four springs were in place. The brake lining is tore up a little bit but I think this was from the last time my dad took it apart without using anything to support the weight of the parts! So, I turned my attention to the fiber clutch discs, even though there didn't appear to be any moisture in the 90W when I drained the casting before disassembly. Here is what I got measurement wise:

Fiber clutch discs: 0.1835", 0.1915", 0.1910", 0.1915", 0.1855", 0.1955"
Steel disc plates: 0.0960", 0.960", 0.0950", 0.0965", 0.0960"

Based on what I have read on this forum, the fiber clutch discs should be around 0.155" and the steels around 0.093". The steels are in good shape so I think these are just a little thicker than normal for some reason. My concern is the fiber clutch discs. Using the 0.155" thickness as nominal, my stack adds nearly a quarter inch past where it should be (0.208" to be exact), so I'm guessing this is enough to cause problems? Also, I don't think he had the brake band adjusted properly.

Looking for some guidance here - am I on the right track to replace the fiber clutch discs and see if this takes care of the problem?

[dtoots1]

Pauly68,

Well i certainly do need a little more information in regards to which side these clutches come from,??? If these are what is in the left side steering....they would be driving you to turn right.....in order to turn left your left brakes have to be working properly to lock that side and enable the right track to drive..... the brakes on the left side stop that track so you would turn left....

That would mean your right side clutches need looked at.

Adjusting these old girls require doing so several time since all these different connections are either rusted or worn...mostly getting the throw-out to proper position as close to fingers as possible and following the procedures precisely...that snapping sound can easily be an adjustment issue.

kinda sounds to me you did not have the brakes adjusted or timed properly? on the left side

Just need clarification and go from there.


PS..see you online so will hang in here for spell..!!!!

[pauly68]

Well, I’m confused then. If I’m in the seat facing forward and pull the brake lever on the right side, it locks up the right side track and turns the tractor that direction. The brake lever on the left side does absolutely nothing when pulled.

[pauly68]

Forgot to mention: I have the left hand side apart currently. Left as in if I was sitting in the seat facing forward.

[dtoots1]

Pauly68,

OK so It sounds to me like the major problem was simply proper adjustment of the LEFT Brake period....
now that you already have it apart...what does that brake band actually look like insofar as ..condition?...new is roughly about 1/4 inch thick...and cost is between 200-300...as far as the clutches go...are they...oil free...not wet...and steels fairly clean?...these cost somewhere between 600 to 800 i think.....Lavoy owner of this site can advise if your measurements prove needing replacement..

As you stated..when pulling on left brake...the track does not stop...that means the brake system is NOT working properly..either adjustment or perhaps a linkage broken or disconnected somewhere in system....the rocker at top with the bolt and locknut...is a known failure point and breaks underneath where you cannot see a break in the casting...mine did that..that actually initiates the movement and is the timing system

[pauly68]

Thanks for the info! Clutches and steels look good. Brake band does too, other than it looks like dad had some trouble either taking it apart or putting it together. The surface is a little gouged up, so may warrant replacement. I’ve got a couple in boxes I will pull out and measure, too.

Could easy be adjustment is the culprit and I would be ok with that!!!

[original possum]

If your discs are too thick (swollen) the clutch may not disengage, as you surmised. If the throwout bearing would adjust to meet the clutch fingers then it should have still disengaged assuming all fingers are adjusted (JD 7 gauge) and the brake could be the culprit. If pulling the left steering clutch handle all the way back did not seriously bog down the engine when trying to turn left then it is the culprit. You didn't mention what casting you drained and what came out. If it was water in the clutch housing and had stood for awhile you should replace the fibers and maybe pressure plate.

[pauly68]

Well, I don’t think the brake or the clutch was adjusted properly now that I’ve talked to a few of you smart fellers on here. I’m a novice with this thing, so I’m learning as I go.

I hoping to find out if the discs need replacing based on thickness so I can put it back together. Should I just replace them so I know what I got? Not in a rush to use it, as it is winter in Michigan. Then I can move on to the next thing needing attention on it!

[dtoots1]

Pauly68,

Once you get info on clutch thickness and decide to re assemble....the brake band needs to be loosened all the way to clear drum when trying to get final back in..can drag quite a bit...as it approaches entry look closely and adjust as necessary for clearance...if dragging a bit..i used a large rubber mallet on my old 440 to move it in the last inch or so..i am 80 and just put one back in my 420..use engine hoist to lift

[Steven Walters]

90w? They are dry clutches

[pauly68]

Yeah, I got confused. That was from the back side I got the 90W. I’m learning this old girl very slowly-please pardon my ignorance.

[pauly68]

Been a while since I posted on here. Lavoy helped me figure out what was going on. He got me set up with new fiber discs, a pinion seal and throw out bearing and sleeve. Then found out some was wonky with my T/O bearing retainer so have one of those coming now too!

Radiator was steaming so I pulled the shroud off to find what appears to be a tired original 1955 radiator. It’s rough so going to see if I can get it re-cored locally. If not, I’ll have to look at a new one. Hydraulic pump leaks so that will come apart for new seals. It leaks back by the reservoir too so I will try to figure that while I’m in this far. New belts and radiator hoses are on the docket too.

Lavoy has been a tremendous help on this thing so thanks Lavoy!

[pauly68]

Been a while since I posted on here. Lavoy helped me figure out what was going on. He got me set up with new fiber discs, a pinion seal and throw out bearing and sleeve. Then found out some was wonky with my T/O bearing retainer so have one of those coming now too!

Radiator was steaming so I pulled the shroud off to find what appears to be a tired original 1955 radiator. It’s rough

[pauly68]

Final drive is back together - went together last Saturday very easily. It would have been my dad's 95 birthday, so I think he was there and smiling that I finally figured out what was amiss with the final drive. The throwout bearing was seized to the sleeve so I could never adjust it close enough because the sleeve was hitting the pressure plate! Hydraulic pump is rebuilt and reinstalled. New radiator hoses on and radiator back in, along with the front shroud. Hope to get the track back on this weekend and radiator filled back up. On to the hydraulic leaks! LOL!