440IC Air Cleaner

jd440 · Post by **jd440** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:43 pm

Hello,

Can anyone tell me the length of the air cleaner tube that goes into the oil bath?

My 440IC sucked some metal into the engine. Of course it did not run well after this.

I took off the cylinder head and removed some small pieces of sheet metal that look like they came from the air cleaner. In fact, the air cleaner tube which goes into the oil bath had been shortened with an oxy-acetylene torch.

I trimmed it off with a cut-off wheel but I don't what length the tube should be.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Derek

JD440ICD2006 · Post by **JD440ICD2006** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:53 pm

Derek,

I do not have the measurements as I cannot get to my 440IC to get that info right now. But I do know that this type of oil bath requires the down tube going to the intake to be submerged in the oil in the bowl. The bowl has a fill level marked on it. If your down pipe is below that oil level when the bowl is on, that is close to where it should be.
Hopefully someone can measure for you or maybe Lavoy will know from memory.

jd440 · Post by **jd440** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:41 pm

I have added a photo of a piece of metal that I found in the engine. I thought that this metal may have come off the air cleaner. The lines on the background sheet of paper are 1/4" apart.

Anyone have any idea where it came from?

Tomorrow, I will try to estimate the length of the down tube. I will then extend it using a piece of 2" OD exhaust pipe brazed in place. Does it have any holes in the side of the down pipe like in the oil cup?

Thanks,

Derek

BKahler · Post by **BKahler** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:37 am

jd440 wrote:Tomorrow, I will try to estimate the length of the down tube. I will then extend it using a piece of 2" OD exhaust pipe brazed in place. Does it have any holes in the side of the down pipe like in the oil cup?

Derek,

I can't help with the piece of metal but if you can wait until this evening I can pull my air cleaner and get a measurement for you.

Brad

jd440 · Post by **jd440** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:22 am

Thanks Brad.

BKahler · Post by **BKahler** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:39 pm

Derek,

Looking at the first picture the distance from the edge of the ruler to the edge of the cannister is 1/2". With all the gunk on mine its hard to see that mine is anything like yours inside.

Since I bought the crawler not running and am still working on the engine I never bothered to pull the air cleaner off. I found out this evening that I don't have the cup or bowl that holds the oil

I guess now I have to try and locate one of those.

Hope the pictures give you the information you need.

Brad

jd440 · Post by **jd440** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:46 pm

Hi Brad,

I think that the down tube on your air cleaner has also been trimmed. There is no way that it would reach into the oil bath.

Thanks for trying.

Derek

BKahler · Post by **BKahler** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:52 pm

jd440 wrote:Hi Brad,

I think that the down tube on your air cleaner has also been trimmed. There is no way that it would reach into the oil bath.

Thanks for trying.

Derek

Derek,

I'm not so sure about that. I'm going to look at a couple of other oil bath air cleaners I have laying around. It was my impression that the oil was supposed to splash around and just keep the screen mesh damp with oil. If the tube is down in the oil I doubt that the engine would breath very well. At least thats the way its been described to me in the past.

Brad

Update:

I just realized you have a 440IC. Mine is a 440ICD and according to the parts manuals they are different. So it looks like someone else is going to have to chime in with the info you need. Sorry about that!

However, I'm now in the market for a 440ICD air filter cup.

Brad

wwattson · Post by **wwattson** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:30 pm

It should extend down into the oil. That's why you can't start them by spraying ether into the intake; it just gets stopped by the oil.

I'll get you a couple of photos of the tube on my 1010. It might be a bit different but should give you an idea of how far down into the oil it should go.

jd440 · Post by **jd440** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:41 pm

From my research, the oil bath is located just below the end of the down tube. The dirty air goes down the tube, makes a quick 180 over the pool of oil and up through the filter element. The dust and dirt can't make the quick turn and end up in the oil.

My problem is I don't know the gap between the end of the down tube and the surface of the oil.

I am definitely learning a lot here!

Derek

rah · Post by **rah** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:52 am

The piece of metal couldn't have come from the air cleaner, at least not the tube on the bottom anyway. On these oil bath air cleaners the fresh air comes down the center tube, through the oil, up the wire mesh screens, and then to the engine. So any stray pieces of metal should have been in the bowl with the oil.

The tube needs to be long enough to extend into the oil in the cup. What actually happens is engine vacuum pulls the oil up into the wire screen when the motor is running. This oil coats the screens and allows them to better trap dirt particles in the air. On a properly working air cleaner you can see this is the case by removing the cup right after shutting down the motor. Oil will still be dripping down from the screen area back into the bowl.

One common problem that people have with the oil bath air cleaner is if water gets into the bowl, it will freeze in the winter and not allow air to get to the motor. Another common issue is running the tractor either without the bowl, or no oil in the bowl. This not only lets dirt get into the motor (as the wire mesh doesn’t do that good of a job cleaning air by itself), but can case the engine to not get the right amount of fuel. The factory spec carb adjustment settings are designed to factor in the vacuum used to suck this oil up and hold it suspended in the filter.

Unfortunately I don’t have one to measure, the filter on my 1010 uses a paper element. I’m not sure what the availability of these are in the crawler market, but there seem to be plenty of good used ones for sale in the two-cylinder arena (at least for the row-crow, Waterloo tractors). Getting a different one, may be easier than fixing what you have.

Royden

hunter41mag · Post by **hunter41mag** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:41 am

It may be possible that the piece of metal is from the choke plate flapper.
Pull your intake hose to carb off and look at the choke plate. If you have a opening in the plate (about 3/8" by 1/2" half round) than you are missing your choke plate flapper. Its spring loaded to let air in but not back out (when choke is closed).

jd440 · Post by **jd440** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:04 pm

Thanks Hunter41mag,

The choke plate flapper is missing and the crawler has been harder to start lately. Much harder now that the cylinder head is off. I guess I'll have to track down a replacement or make a new choke plate flapper.

I still haven't got a measurement for the length of the down pipe on the JD440. However, even the shortened pipe on my air cleaner dips below the surface of the oil in the bowl. So Royden is right!

I took my carburetor apart and it looks very rusty. I wonder how the crawler ever ran. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to clean it up?

Finally, my carburetor floats look deflated. Any suggestions on how to restore them to usable condition?

Thanks,

Derek (JD440)

wwattson · Post by **wwattson** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:22 pm

The float is cheap; $12 or so on eBay and less than $20 almost anywhere else. The flapper shouldn't be too hard to find either. I'll look around and send post a link when I get a chance to look tonight.

wwattson · Post by **wwattson** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:21 pm

Here's a link to a float that should work.

http://cgi.ebay.com/JOHN-DEERE-L-LA-LI- ... dZViewItem

Haven't seen the chock plate yet but I'll keep looking.

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