40C, MC, ?????

[The Bachelor]

Morning,

I'm currently looking for an MC or 40C with a blade to help clear out some brush on some over grown pasture land. The brush is mostly up to three inches diameter. Do you think something like those models would work? I need a lightweight kind of thing because I might want to use the crawler elsewhere too.

Another question, I've got some hard areas of a field that a plow won't touch, it just skims right over it. I was hoping the crawler could rip those areas a little, but what would you put behind it?

Thanks,
Brad

[Lavoy]

For what you want to do, I would not even consider an MC, and would probably look more for a at least a 420. The increased power would be benificial, and you would not increase weight that much.
Lavoy

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

I'll second the 420, or even a 440. The 5-roller tracks are much better than the 3 or 4 roller ones if you're really working them. I'd also look for the mod 62 (420) or 63 (440) blade as their much heavier than the earlier models.

Heck, if you get lucky, you might even find a 440 with the mod 64 power angle blade.

As far as the hard spot goes, you could find one with a 3-pt hitch (good luck there, BTW) and use a scarifier or heavy box blade. The crawler 3-pt hitches are cat-2 and offer downpressure (unlike a tractor).

The other thing one can do is to tilt the bulldoizer blade on an angle and that also does a good job of cutting thru the hard stuff. This is probably the way you'll do it, as finding a 420 or 440 crawler/dozer is easier than finding one with a 3-pt hitch on it.

Stan

[The Bachelor]

Thanks all,

Right now, the big thing is trailer weight. I've got a 7000lb trailer, and I'm trying to not have to buy another one. I'll look aorund for a 420c though.

I'm curious about the motor though. I've got a JD "B" that has been helping me get real familiar with its insides lately. Does the 420C have the same type of guts?

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Is that 7k lbs Gross or 7k lbs Net you're referring to? If it's Gross, you're probably right in looking for a 40c instead of a 420c. If it's Net, then you're probably OK.

My 420c is close to 7k lbs with the 62 blade, brush guard, 5-roller tracks, 12" pads, direction reverser, belly pan and whatever else it has that weighs more than a 4-roller 40c with 61 blade.

A 440 will weigh a bit more, and probably pushes 8k lbs if it has the power blade on it. Since the 440 was redesigned as one of the pillars of the all-new for 1958 JD Industrial lineup, lots of things became heavier on them.

I have a 4 1/2 ton (gross) flatbed and it has more than enough capacity to haul my 420c around. It'd do a 440 or a 1010 equally well, but would run out of capacity trying to haul a JD350 around (I had one of those, too, and there's no way I'd try to haul it on my trailer).

As far as a JD 'B' goes, nothing is the same as on the 'M' based line. The 'B became the 50, then 520, then 530. The 'M' became the 40, then 320/420, then 330/430, then 440 and finally 1010 (with a new engine).

The 'B' has a transverse (lays flat and the crank goes crossways) engine and transmission, while the 'M' has longitudinal (sits upright and the crank goes fore and aft, like a car or truck).

Now, the older Lindemann crawers *were* based on the 'B' Orchard drivetrain, so lots of those parts are similar to what you're used to on your 'B'.

One thing I can't remember is if the 61 blade offers tilt or not. If it does, you can probably get by with a 40c 4-roller w/61 blade for what you want to do and it'll still go onto a 7lk lbs Gross trailer.

Stan

[NNAATZ]

i use my 420 in the same way that you are going too. it works great, with some common sense. i would go with a420 5 roller . it has more power , better cooling and you can still haul it

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

FWIW, I see a new listing for an early 420c 4-roller with 61 blade on Yesterday's Tractors:

http://www.tractorshed.com/cgi-bin/phot ... =retrieval

It might be further away than you want (Michigan), but it fits your description.

Looks like a 4-speed without reverser. Can't tell much else from the smallish single photo, though.

Stan

[The Bachelor]

Looks like just what I need. If it wasn't so far off. I hauled a Deere B from Gladwin Mi down here once. I'll never do that again, although I have to say the people of Cincinatti were real frendly to me, blowing their horns to make me feel welcome.

I am curious though, what is a reverser??

Thanks

[Tigerhaze]

The reverser allows you to shift from forward to reverse and back without using the foot clutch to shift. I think they didn't put them on ag crawlers, just the industrial crawlers.

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

A reverser is more properly called a Direction Reverser. On these old machines, they're installed where the center frame would normally be, between the engine clutch and the transmission input.

What they do, is reverse the direction of the transmission input shaft, allowing one to move in reverse while leaving the transmission in whatever forward gear one is using.

On the early 420's, the reverser is a gear type and the control lever is on the right side of the battery box. In the pix of the one for sale, I see the bent shift lever usually associated with the 4-speed tranny - which is bent to clear the steering levers - and I do not see the reverser lever. So, I presume that it's a 4-speed non-reverser equipped machine.

On the later 420's, the reverser is of a differential style design and the control lever is on the left side of the battery box. This style is always associated with the 5-speed tranny, which has a straight lever with a bend in the right steering lever towards the left to clear the trans lever.

The diff style is better than the gear as the gears tend to get stuck on the teeth sometimes requiring fiddling with the master clutch to get it to work. The diff style has it's own internal clutch packs (look a lot like a pair of automatic transmission clutches and run in hyd oil) so it always shifts without hanging up. The differential part is in the center between the clutches and are a set of spyder gears just like in the differential of a car, truck or tractor, hence the name.

FWIW, the diff style reverser carried thru the 430 and 440 series until near the end of the 440's life when it was replaced with a hydraulic design that is also found in the 1010.

I know that there was no reverser option for the MC, and I don't recall that one was ever offered on the 40, either - although it may have been offered very late in the life of the 40 when it was about to morph into the 420 much like the diff style reverser appeared in the late 420's just as they were about to morph into the 430 and 440 models. Lavoy would know for sure. I've seen a *lot* of these old girls, but Lavoy has seen a lot *more* than I have.

Stan

[Lavoy]

Gear type reverser was available on 420's, both 4 and 5 speed up to serial number 131,308. At that point, the 420 got the clutch type reverser that was used until the end of two cylinder production, none of the cylinders used a hyd reverser. Both of these reversers were available with either 4 or 5 speed transmission, and both of these reversers require the use of the foot clutch to shift them in spite of what you may hear about the clutch type.
The gear type reverser was available as a field installed option on the 40 crawlers, but was not available factory installed. Installation on a 40 is the same as the setup on a 420 prior to serial number 100,000. Both the gear type and the clutch type reversers were also available as a field installed option for crawlers that were not factory equipped with a reverser.
Lavoy

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Yes, the last thing one wants to do with the clutch, or differential, type reverser is try shifting it without using the master clutch. That'll put a pretty quick end to the clutches.

You need to clutch, stop dead, and then throw the reverser lever - or else you'll be shortly splitting the thing back to the transmission.

You also never want to put the tansmission in reverse and the reverser in reverse to get another forward speed. That's something else that'll eat the thing up in a hurry, and it pointed out in the operator's manual (yes, I still have the one that came with my 420. How rare is that?). My dad put a bolt in the shift cage on his (now mine) 420c long, long ago to ensure that this never happened.

My 4500 wheel tractor/loader has the Power Reverser, which allows for shifting without the master clutch, yet I always use the master clutch anyway lest I get into the habit of not using it and then do the same on the 420! That'd be *really* bad!

Interesting on the history of reversers on the 420. I've never seen one with the gear reverser and the 5-speed or one with the clutch reverser and the 4-speed. Learn something new every day around here!

Stan

[Lostit]

I have a 440 gas #448093 in running condition that I want to sell. Does run and steer. I use it in the winter time to push snow. Has a 6 way manual blade.

Bob in Wyoming