I bought a 420C with a broken transmission case a few months ago. I have a good transmission and gears from a 40 wheel tractor complete with the three point upper lift parts. Will it fit?? It looks right but I just got the new case home last night and haven't had time to do any measuring. The price was VERY right so I'm not out anything.
Any photos of a tractor and 3 pt? Couldn't find any on the search. The three point mechanism looks like it might hit the the steering levers. It has all the controls. It is missing the lift and pull arms.
If it will fit, is the gearing in the transmission the same? I "was told" that a 40 and 40C were the same except for where it meets the ground.
I will have a lot more questions later I'm sure.
gus
Questions, many questions...
40 and 420 may have the same case, it will depend on serial number of the 420, and model number of the 40. At least some of the internal gears are different, and the tractor has a differential whereas the crawler does not.
3PT on a tractor is completely different than on a crawler, almost no parts interchange.
Lavoy
3PT on a tractor is completely different than on a crawler, almost no parts interchange.
Lavoy
I have no idea what the 40 model was. When I found it, only the transmission and back was still there. I do have the ID tag as, for some reason, it was left with the parts. I have not been able to read the ser no on the 420C but I will make another try with better lighting.
Do you think it would be possible to adapt the wheel tractor 3 pt to a crawler? I think it had a better draft control and would work better with rear implements. It has 2 control handles. I've not seen a working tractor, but it looks similar to my new JD wheel tractor.
I took photos of the rear end and could email them. I don't know how to post them on this site.
gus
Do you think it would be possible to adapt the wheel tractor 3 pt to a crawler? I think it had a better draft control and would work better with rear implements. It has 2 control handles. I've not seen a working tractor, but it looks similar to my new JD wheel tractor.
I took photos of the rear end and could email them. I don't know how to post them on this site.
gus
-
Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2898
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
The rockshaft for the crawler is 3x as heavy as that for the wheel tractor. It goes under the seat the same, but then everything else is different.
The tractor rockshaft has pistons inside it and the hydraulics go to it. The crawler has no pistons in the rockshaft itself. It uses a double-acting cylinder mounted to the fender to operate it. As such, the crawler 3-pt offers downpressure as well as lift. The tractor does not. It has lift only.
It sounds like you have the two piston version from a row-crop model. That works with a split shaft, one lever works the rear arms, and the other works a crank for the center-mounted cultivators. You can pin the two cranks (on the left side as I recall from my 430W) and valve the thing such that one lever works both pistons to increase the rear lift capacity.
Even so, the tractor has half the lift capacity of the crawler. I'd be scared that the crawler would pull the split rockshaft in half, myself.
The tractor pull arms are Cat-I while the crawler is Cat-II. The added traction of the crawler would quickly damage the pull arms from the tractor. I don't even know if the bolt holes for the tractor rockshaft match up with the crawler rear housing. Since the tractor was different inside the housing (has a differential while the crawler does not), I'd not be surprised if Deere drilled different holes in the top of the crawler housings from the tractor.
I suppose I could look. I have a series-3 420c sitting next to a series-1 430w, and both have 5-speed transmissions. If ever there was a tractor rockshaft that could fit a crawler, it'd be these two. They were made all of a month apart.
Not that I'd be up for putting a tractor rockshaft onto the crawler. I can see too many great uses for downpressure on the crawler.
Stan
The rockshaft for the crawler is 3x as heavy as that for the wheel tractor. It goes under the seat the same, but then everything else is different.
The tractor rockshaft has pistons inside it and the hydraulics go to it. The crawler has no pistons in the rockshaft itself. It uses a double-acting cylinder mounted to the fender to operate it. As such, the crawler 3-pt offers downpressure as well as lift. The tractor does not. It has lift only.
It sounds like you have the two piston version from a row-crop model. That works with a split shaft, one lever works the rear arms, and the other works a crank for the center-mounted cultivators. You can pin the two cranks (on the left side as I recall from my 430W) and valve the thing such that one lever works both pistons to increase the rear lift capacity.
Even so, the tractor has half the lift capacity of the crawler. I'd be scared that the crawler would pull the split rockshaft in half, myself.
The tractor pull arms are Cat-I while the crawler is Cat-II. The added traction of the crawler would quickly damage the pull arms from the tractor. I don't even know if the bolt holes for the tractor rockshaft match up with the crawler rear housing. Since the tractor was different inside the housing (has a differential while the crawler does not), I'd not be surprised if Deere drilled different holes in the top of the crawler housings from the tractor.
I suppose I could look. I have a series-3 420c sitting next to a series-1 430w, and both have 5-speed transmissions. If ever there was a tractor rockshaft that could fit a crawler, it'd be these two. They were made all of a month apart.
Not that I'd be up for putting a tractor rockshaft onto the crawler. I can see too many great uses for downpressure on the crawler.
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
If I can, I want to use the tractor rocker and hydraulic lift because I have it. I DO NOT plan on using tractor pull or lift arms. I do not have those parts and will have to find them. If in the future I see a need for the crawler rocker, I will look for one.
I see a benefit in the tractor hydraulics as the main hyd will be used on the front dozer blade. I will not have to buy another cylinder and extra valves.
My only use for the 3 pt is for mowing weeds and grading a 1/2 mile driveway. This will only happen a couple of times each year. The front blade will be used for keeping some logging roads clear of falling rock and light grading when needed.
Work on this tractor project will have to wait for winter. My time right now is very minimal. I'm just getting information, planning and getting some parts together as I can.
Gus
I see a benefit in the tractor hydraulics as the main hyd will be used on the front dozer blade. I will not have to buy another cylinder and extra valves.
My only use for the 3 pt is for mowing weeds and grading a 1/2 mile driveway. This will only happen a couple of times each year. The front blade will be used for keeping some logging roads clear of falling rock and light grading when needed.
Work on this tractor project will have to wait for winter. My time right now is very minimal. I'm just getting information, planning and getting some parts together as I can.
Gus
-
Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2898
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
Well, I wish you luck putting the tractor rockshaft onto the crawler. As far as I know, you're the first to attempt this. I have a 'pile of parts on the rubber' 430w with the dual rockshaft sitting in the weeds out behind the barn and no 3-pt on my 420c and haven't given any thought to swiping the parts off the tractor and mounting them onto the crawler.
I have been open to finding a crawler 3-pt for a while, but I want the correct unit as I need the downpressure to work a scarifier for busting the hardpan on the l-o-n-g driveway I have.
All I can say is pull the thing off the parts tractor and then hope that the mounting bolt holes line up with those the crawler housing. The bolt holes in the crawler may be larger to boot, but you could get around that with some reducing inserts.
Check for interference between the tractor lift cylinder housing with the crawler steering levers before you go to any trouble to actually bolt the thing fast. I bet you a box of donuts that they interfere. The crawler shaft housing does not protrude past the seat frame, while the tractor one does, and by quite a bit.
As far as the crawler pull arms and mounting hardware, you're likely to be building your own. These things were so rare on the crawlers that I serously doubt you'll find any in the scrap yards at this point in time. Keep in mind that the entire drawbar and mountings have to change when adding a 3-pt. They are all heavier parts than the stock drawbar parts when a 3-pt is added. That's to keep the heavier loadings generated my cat-II 3-pt implements from torquing the final drive housings and breaking them.
Lavoy is probably your best source of info on the different parts. I know he had most of a 420c 3-pt a year ago (might still have it) that I passed on. He might have some dimensional data to help you fabricate the parts you'll need.
If the tractor rockshaft fits, though, why not use all of the tractor parts as best you can? Without downpressure, and with a little forethought on your part (like using cat-I implements only) as you make use of the thing, you can probably get away with using the lighter parts and save yourself a lot of work making up heavier ones.....
Stan
Well, I wish you luck putting the tractor rockshaft onto the crawler. As far as I know, you're the first to attempt this. I have a 'pile of parts on the rubber' 430w with the dual rockshaft sitting in the weeds out behind the barn and no 3-pt on my 420c and haven't given any thought to swiping the parts off the tractor and mounting them onto the crawler.
I have been open to finding a crawler 3-pt for a while, but I want the correct unit as I need the downpressure to work a scarifier for busting the hardpan on the l-o-n-g driveway I have.
All I can say is pull the thing off the parts tractor and then hope that the mounting bolt holes line up with those the crawler housing. The bolt holes in the crawler may be larger to boot, but you could get around that with some reducing inserts.
Check for interference between the tractor lift cylinder housing with the crawler steering levers before you go to any trouble to actually bolt the thing fast. I bet you a box of donuts that they interfere. The crawler shaft housing does not protrude past the seat frame, while the tractor one does, and by quite a bit.
As far as the crawler pull arms and mounting hardware, you're likely to be building your own. These things were so rare on the crawlers that I serously doubt you'll find any in the scrap yards at this point in time. Keep in mind that the entire drawbar and mountings have to change when adding a 3-pt. They are all heavier parts than the stock drawbar parts when a 3-pt is added. That's to keep the heavier loadings generated my cat-II 3-pt implements from torquing the final drive housings and breaking them.
Lavoy is probably your best source of info on the different parts. I know he had most of a 420c 3-pt a year ago (might still have it) that I passed on. He might have some dimensional data to help you fabricate the parts you'll need.
If the tractor rockshaft fits, though, why not use all of the tractor parts as best you can? Without downpressure, and with a little forethought on your part (like using cat-I implements only) as you make use of the thing, you can probably get away with using the lighter parts and save yourself a lot of work making up heavier ones.....
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Well the tractor case will not work! 
So I guess I will be looking for a 420 transmission case or.....
Another dilemma. I have a 40 that had the under carraige taken apart and that's how I bought it. It sat for many years outside like that. Since they bought all new parts I "assumed" the drive train was probably OK. It has a dozer on it. I was planning on putting it back together but now I'm considering using the parts off of it to put the 420 back in operating condition.
How hard is it to find a 420 tranny case and what is the approx cost? Would I be ahead to just use the 40 parts? The 420 is a first year model.
What could I get for a new set of rollers off of the 40, new side plates (2), good tracks (3 roller size) and other assorted parts?
Gus
So I guess I will be looking for a 420 transmission case or.....Another dilemma. I have a 40 that had the under carraige taken apart and that's how I bought it. It sat for many years outside like that. Since they bought all new parts I "assumed" the drive train was probably OK. It has a dozer on it. I was planning on putting it back together but now I'm considering using the parts off of it to put the 420 back in operating condition.
How hard is it to find a 420 tranny case and what is the approx cost? Would I be ahead to just use the 40 parts? The 420 is a first year model.
What could I get for a new set of rollers off of the 40, new side plates (2), good tracks (3 roller size) and other assorted parts?
Gus
I just found a tranny case at a local (70 miles) tractor junk yard for less than $400.00 for the 420. It looks like I won't be junking the 40 for parts.Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests