Clutch Throw-out Bearing Replacement

[charless]

I just recently purchased a working 440 2 cyl gas crawler dozer. However, the clutch no longer has any significant tension when depressed and does not seem to operate anything so I am assuming the throw-out bearing is no longer working. Does this sound right or should I be looking for some other problem.

How hard is it for a backyard, somewhat mechanic to repair this problem? Am I going to run into any problems by just using the (I think it is called a reverser or shuttle) to operate the machine without the clutch if I don't change gears while I am running it?

Hope my questions don't sound too dumb. I am in the process of trying to locate a service manual and that should answer most of my questions. If I am going to be doing most of the work on my machine myself here at home, should I look at obtaining any other manuals or literature?

It would be great if some of you other 440 owners could give me your contact information so perhaps I could call you direct for information.

Thanks so much everyone who is willing to assist a new owner of one of these neat little machines!!

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Well, it would depend on the reverser style you have. I know that the early 440s' had the differential, or clutch (it's called by both names), type reverser, which has no neutral position and requires that you have the main clutch disengaged and be fully stopped before throwing the reverser lever.

I can tell you that the differential-type reverser clutches will die a horrible death the first time you throw that reverser lever while moving.

I know that the 1010 switched to a hydraulic-style reverser that does have a neutral position, and one can use it instead of the engine clutch to stop before changing direction.

I *think* that the later 440's used the hydraulic reverser as well, but am not prepared to swear to that. In any case, you have a 440 and would need to be sure that you have the hydraulic, and not the differential, style reverser before trying this trick.....

Later!

Stan

[charless]

Thanks Stan.... I have been using the reverser without the clutch since I purchased the machine (about 20 hours probably) with no apparent problems. Moving the reverser back and forth shuttles the crawler easily and nicely between forward and reverse. I hope I have not been causing myself unseen problems. Hoping that Lavoy and/or others will also respond with their knowledge/thoughts. Thanks again for your input.

[Lavoy]

Using the reverser in the manner you are using it will destroy the metallic discs in the reverser in relatively short order. Given the current price of these discs, you are looking at just short of a $1000 bill to replace them, not including incendentals. ALL reversers in ALL two cylinder crawlers must be used with foot clutch, doing otherwise will ruin the reverser, or at least parts of it.
Putting in an engine clutch is not difficult, get a set of Brad Kahler's manuals on CD, and you will have no problem. All you need is a flat floor and an engine hoist of some sort. An engine clutch kit is $210, + $25 for the gauge to set it if you don't already have one.

The all hydraulic reverser did not come out until the 1010's, this is the first Deere crawler to have a reverse that can be shifted under power. In fact, a 1010 with a reverser has no engine clutch, the clutch pedal is simply disengaging both cluch packs in the reverser, so nothing to harm.
Lavoy

[charless]

Thanks for your wise counsel Lavoy....I am now planning the clutch replacement after I receive the manuals from Brad.

I live up in the mountains in a cabin where we have lots of snow. It is possible that I will have to push some snow off the steep lane to the cabin before I am able to get the crawler repaired. Do you have any advice as to how to best operate the machine so as to minimize any wear and tear if I find I have no choice but to use it like it is for a few hours....?

[Lavoy]

By not operating, do you mean it slips, or that when the clutch pedal is depressed, the crawler does not stop?
Lavoy

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

I don't know how you've managed to keep the clutch discs in the reverser working while using it to power shift between forward and reverse. Every one I ever saw that was run like that would up with badly bent ears (the metal tabs on the clutch discs) that simply kept the reverser from working at all.

I went and forgot about using the master clutch and stopping before reversing *one* time when I was first learning to use dad's crawler. I also wound up learning how to rebuild a reverser right after that.....

Fortunately, my dad was the kind that used the opportunity as a 'learning experience' for me. He didn't have to ground me, per se, although I was practically grounded as I had to then become the mechanic (under close supervision, of course) for several days in a row and repair my own mistake.

It appears that I do not remember correctly at all - that the very late 440's wound up with the hydraulic style reverser. I won't forget that fact again. Thanks, Lavoy.

Later!

Stan

[Lavoy]

You would not believe how many times I have seen reversers or parts of reversers and the tabs are bent to pieces, or sheared off completely. Originally, there was supposed to be a decal on the side of the battery sheetmetal, or somewhere on the crawler about the reverser operation. I had one on one of my 440's, but you seldom see them. I don't know if it is due to repaints, or if they fell off, or never got applied at the factory due to the equipment on the crawler.
As it relates to 1010's, I wonder if at the time the 1010 came out, there were operators still running 440's alongside of 1010's and the operators ran them both the same way.
Lavoy

[charless]

Hi Lavoy (and anyone else).... In answer to your question about the clutch not operating....it doesn't do anything when I press on the clutch pedal. It seems as if the only tension on the pedal is probably just a return spring....? Depressing or releasing the clutch pedal does absolutely nothing as far as moving/stopping the crawler or shifting the transmission into or out of any gear.

Could it be that the clutch itself is locked in the disengaged position and therefore I can freely move the reverser back and forth and likewise move the machine backward and forward? Would the machine move on the reverser with the engine clutch disengaged? Like I stated, I have put 20 or so hours on the machine using only the reverser without using the clutch pedal.

I have to put the reverser in the neutral (midpoint) position to put the transmission in gear and then the reverser moves it smoothly backward and forward just like the shuttle I've used on a trackhoe. There has never been any grinding or other noises using it like this and the reverser will latch in the forward or reverse position if I push/pull it all the way forward or back.

[JD440ICD2006]

Looking at the flow of power, if any one of three clutches are not engaged, that unit will not get power.
To apply that to what you have described, your lever clutches seem to be working but your main clutch is full time engaged. If the main clutch were not engaged, the flow of power would not go any further, your crawler would not move.
I hope this helps, Lavoy can explain it in greater detail if need be.

[Lavoy]

For whatever reason, your throwout bearing is not contacting you pressure plate fingers. A few possibilities here. 1. Your clutch is just not adjusted properly and you have too much freeplay. 2. A pin has fallen out of the linkage somewhere, or the linkage has otherwise become disconnected either externally, or internally.
Trace your clutch linkage from your clutch pedal all the way forward as far as you can see it. If there is nothing odd there, try removing all the freeplay you can and then see if it contacts the pressure plate. If it still does not, I would say you will need to split the crawler and look at the clutch closer.
Lavoy

[charless]

Thanks for the information.... So, if I need to use it the way it is for a couple of hours, what would you say the chances are I would do any damage?

[Lavoy]

Shift the lever slowly, only in lower gears, and always at reduced throttle if not idle. Also make sure that the fluid level is correct as well. It is still going to drastically increase the wear on the clutch plates, but you likely already have damage to them anyhow, so maybe that is not a big deal.
Lavoy

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

My 420c still has the decal attached to the left side battery box sheetmetal. I don't recall the exact wording, but it basically amounts to 'if you work the reverser lever without using the master clutch you will be screwed'.

I'll write down the actual text and post it over the weekend. Maybe I can sweet talk the wife into making up a silkscreen with an exact copy of the text. I can use mine as original artwork so it'd be *exactly* the same as Deere used on the 420. We could print up some mylar decals from the screen and you could use them on restorations.

I'm unaware of anyone making Deere decal sets that include the differential-style reverser text. If anyone knows of a source, then I won't go to all that work to repro mine.

I also wonder if the 430's and 440's used the same text. It'd be easy to make up some with Deere Ag Yellow ink and others with black ink (for the industrial machines).

Later!

Stan

[JD440ICD2006]

Stan,

Thanks for posting that information on the reverser.
Travis Jorde is the decal maker who is typically recommended by many restoration experts.
You may want to contact him. If he does not have the decal, he may consider making it up.
I could use decals for two 440s when they are available.