Dan,
The rail(chain) doesn't care which dirrection it is going. As Levoy says you are going backward as much as foreward on a dozer crawler. Just turn them around and put them on the other side.
Chuck
New member and new owner of a 56? 420 crawler
, Thanks Chuck . I am slowly relearning the terminology of crawlers again . 
Dan
Actually the chain does care which way it is going. Going forward (maximum force), once a chain link gets picked up by the sprocket you want its bushing to hold its position with respect to the sprocket and not rotate until it reaches the top and is no longer being pushed on by the sprocket tooth.
I learned this in a document mentioned in another thread on this board... look at page 10 for a further explanation of what I am talking about:
http://www.tpaktopc.net/files/undrcarguide.pdf
I learned this in a document mentioned in another thread on this board... look at page 10 for a further explanation of what I am talking about:
http://www.tpaktopc.net/files/undrcarguide.pdf
-
Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2898
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
Yes, the rails do wear more in reverse than in forward. A lot more, actually.
In reverse, the power is applied to the chain via all the teeth in contact. In forward, the power is applied only through the first couple of teeth in contact.
There's a lot more slipping between the sprocket teeth and the bushings in reverse than in forward as a result, hence increased wear in reverse.
This is why all the pushing and pulling should be done with the machine moving forward (meaning don't pull on things with a chain attached to the blade, use the drawbar).
This is one of the main reasons why the tracks wear so much faster on a crawler loader than on a crawler dozer. The other main reason is that a loader weighs more than the dozer, especially with the bucket loaded....
Later!
Stan
Yes, the rails do wear more in reverse than in forward. A lot more, actually.
In reverse, the power is applied to the chain via all the teeth in contact. In forward, the power is applied only through the first couple of teeth in contact.
There's a lot more slipping between the sprocket teeth and the bushings in reverse than in forward as a result, hence increased wear in reverse.
This is why all the pushing and pulling should be done with the machine moving forward (meaning don't pull on things with a chain attached to the blade, use the drawbar).
This is one of the main reasons why the tracks wear so much faster on a crawler loader than on a crawler dozer. The other main reason is that a loader weighs more than the dozer, especially with the bucket loaded....
Later!
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Stan, Ray, Lavoy,
This wear, especially in reverse is almost all in the pins, bushings and sprockets isn't it? The links of the rail system only get wear from the idlers and rollers ( and at the ends of the bushings and from pins being pressed out /in), am I wrong that this Link wear wouldn't be very dirrection sensitive? I am referring to the links, not the whole rail system of links,pins and bushes.
I will shut up now
Chuck
This wear, especially in reverse is almost all in the pins, bushings and sprockets isn't it? The links of the rail system only get wear from the idlers and rollers ( and at the ends of the bushings and from pins being pressed out /in), am I wrong that this Link wear wouldn't be very dirrection sensitive? I am referring to the links, not the whole rail system of links,pins and bushes.
I will shut up now
Chuck
1960 440ICD #461094 w/ #63 manual blade Converted to a gas engine two owners ago.
Yes, I should have stated that I was referring to pin and bushing wear. I believe that there is little difference in wear to the links themselves, they do not touch anything differently regardless of direction. The one caveat there would be the pads running backwards may impart stress differently to the rail running backwards and that could be a function.
Lavoy
Lavoy
Lavoy , Stan , Ray , and Chuck .
Thanks for all the information on swapping the tracks side to side , When I bought the crawler I did not even notice that the pads were on backwards . I am in the process of getting it home and the weather is not cooperating with the plans so far .
On loading the crawler on a trailer , do you think it would pull itself onto the trailer or should I just have the seller load it on his tiltbed and pay him to haul it to my place . ? The trailer that we are planning on has a deck height of about eighteen inches and is heavy enough to handle the load . Dan
Thanks for all the information on swapping the tracks side to side , When I bought the crawler I did not even notice that the pads were on backwards . I am in the process of getting it home and the weather is not cooperating with the plans so far .
On loading the crawler on a trailer , do you think it would pull itself onto the trailer or should I just have the seller load it on his tiltbed and pay him to haul it to my place . ? The trailer that we are planning on has a deck height of about eighteen inches and is heavy enough to handle the load . Dan
1956 420C with GSC blade
Tools are to men as shoes are to women , you can never have too many !!
Used diesel engines are an adventure any way you look at them !!
Tools are to men as shoes are to women , you can never have too many !!
Used diesel engines are an adventure any way you look at them !!
The wear I am thinking about is when the bushing of a link rotates as it sits inside the sprocket teeth. This happens as the chain goes from flat on the ground to curved around the sprocket. If you think of a chain link by itself, it's got a bushing at one end and is open at the other. So whenever the chain flexes, each bushing only rotates with one link.
With the chain laid out so each link has its fixed bushing to the front, as the sprocket picks up each link the resulting rotation of the bushing happens in sync with the rotation of the sprocket (because the link that bushing is attached to is riding up with the sprocket). There is no friction between bushing and sprocket as a result. The opposite happens at the top of the sprocket, but the friction doesn't cause as much wear since the torque transfer took place at the bottom of the sprocket, unless you're in reverse.
It is a difficult concept to think about, let alone explain, so I will leave it at that. Either way why not put the chains on "right" just to be safe?
With the chain laid out so each link has its fixed bushing to the front, as the sprocket picks up each link the resulting rotation of the bushing happens in sync with the rotation of the sprocket (because the link that bushing is attached to is riding up with the sprocket). There is no friction between bushing and sprocket as a result. The opposite happens at the top of the sprocket, but the friction doesn't cause as much wear since the torque transfer took place at the bottom of the sprocket, unless you're in reverse.
It is a difficult concept to think about, let alone explain, so I will leave it at that. Either way why not put the chains on "right" just to be safe?
The 420 Crawler will be here Friday afternoon after 4:30 , the seller is hauling it for me . I got the serial number tonight and it is a late 56 model by the serial number 928XX I will post some more pictures of it after it gets here . And picked up a few parts he had for it , pinion gear , master pin , and bearing cover in case the one on the shaft is trash $60 bucks , and he has a final drive case for it for $200 . One more question what is a winch for a 420 worth , was functioning when taken off . Dan
1956 420C with GSC blade
Tools are to men as shoes are to women , you can never have too many !!
Used diesel engines are an adventure any way you look at them !!
Tools are to men as shoes are to women , you can never have too many !!
Used diesel engines are an adventure any way you look at them !!
It's Here
It arrived around 3:30 Friday afternoon
All the tinwork except the battery box cover is there I think .
Problem Side
There are more photos here
http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff14/Lu47Dan/
Dan
1956 420C with GSC blade
Tools are to men as shoes are to women , you can never have too many !!
Used diesel engines are an adventure any way you look at them !!
Tools are to men as shoes are to women , you can never have too many !!
Used diesel engines are an adventure any way you look at them !!
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