440 crawlers resale value in question

[carolina crawler]

Not a question, but a statement,or BLOG as they call it now .Since getting into the old crawler world< I have seen, various different prices on 440s, loaders and dozers..some in like new/reconditioned shape to others that are missing half of the body parts...yet we all seem to be insterested in the old crawlers that dont run and need lots of work and parts...but when I see them for sale in good running condition, painted and looking like they are ready to go to work,we tend to stay away....is it the personal satisfaction we get from rebuilding these old girls and buying NOS or used parts when we can find them?,why dont we just buy a good running unit for 5k and save ourselves the work in tearing them apart, the 350crawlers sell like hotcakes, yet the 440s/1010s dont..maybe because were all men who like this stuff and dont trust others word or work ability or maybe we all need a excuse to get out of the house and get dirty and get away from, "Honey, can you bring up the clothes from the dryer".Thats my excuse..I dont know, just was searchn the internet for crawler stuff, and I see more 440s on craigs lists all over the place and on ebay for various prices.but it seems we all like the projects best....I will say this, 440 owners are a family in themselves, as we all have the same problems and needs, And I am Glad to be part of it..I have had to put my crawler project on hold due to my Dads health,but I tend to get back on it it real soon.....who says you need wet clutches to move earth......"keep on rockin in the free world".Mark/ Cc

[Lu47Dan]

It might be that a crawler that has been "restored' by someone else is of "unknown quality" . I have seen too many good paint jobs on a worn out piece of junk in the last ten years to plop down 5K on a piece of iron that might need 2 - 3K of parts or machine work to make useful again . The 420 I recently purchased has its problems , but for $1800 , I can still put a lot of money into it and still be money ahead on buying a "ready to run crawler" of unknown pedigree . I would rather fix it myself and know it was done right than always wonder what is lurking under the pretty paint . I have seen more than one person get burned on a "restored" farm tractor over the years , as with any equipment that there is a market for , there will always be dishonest people out there wanting to make a quick buck . This has hurt the honest guy that does it as a hobby as there can be 20 good restored tractors to 1 bad restoration scam but all you hear about is the one that was a scam . As always "CAVEAT EMPTOR " let the buyer beware . JMTC Dan

[hunter41mag]

I am a 440IC owner and bought it to do odd jobs around our family farm. To keep the price down I bought a 440IC that needed some work (no cost for my labor on my projects, only cost me part $) plus I know it will be repaired correctly. It seems like someone in the excavating business will by something larger, newer and faster and it will cost them more $ for it. Also they want it to go to work right away, not be in the shop for a few weeks.months. Where as someone like me does not need to have it working right away (mine took me 14 months to rebuild the final drives) and are not looking to spend allot of $ up front. Plus I have the satisfaction of seeing the something as old as I am still chugging away for many years to come. So thats my 2 cents worth on why older restored items do not sell as good as older ones needing work and newer model equipment that are ready to go.

[JD440ICD2006]

Mark,

I think you are on the right track. We enjoy the sense of satisfaction of doing the restoration and repair work, plus we know what is in there.
The only real way to understand how these old beast operate is to go in to them. Plus, as others stated, there is nothing more expensive than new paint on an old machine.
The ones that are doing it know what they are doing. It is called turning a quick buck.
I contacted a seller (name withheld) on ebay recently that boasted 1,000s of equipment sales and vast knowledge. (This was their sales pitch in every ad to attempt to build credibility)
So, I figured any one in the equipment business with that many sales could answer a few simple questions.
I emailed them a few simple questions on a particular unit they had for sale. Immediately, this company with all of this knowledge turned to "we don't know, we just clean them up, paint them, and sell them to the highest bidder".
That should tell all of us that are not willing to throw money away to stay away from auctions like that.

[Tractor 850]

I agree,
There's nothing like bringing back a piece of old iron from the scrap heap!
It gives me a real feeling of satisfaction to finish a project and put it to work.
I use my tractors, not that there is anything wrong with someone who restores to new condition and shows their work off at the tractor shows.
I have a 440IC (My first crawler!) that I brought home last weekend and finally got to work on today. Now that the tracks are adjusted, it feels like it is now mine.
Now to change the fluids, replace the hydralic cylinder for the 3pt hitch, adjust the steering clutches and brakes, and so on.
I'll keep you all up to date as work progresses.

[JimAnderson]

Hey,
I have read all of your posts and have found a common thread.I think
we all feel better knowing what has been done our pride and joys.The
best way is to do it ourselves .Thanks to Lavoy we have a way
to learn and share valuable information.I have been messing with
these things for over 40 years and until I found this site I thought
that I was an oddball.
Nothing makes me any madder than to have some jerk advertise
a machine as RESTORED and see that it's just a repaint.I would
rather buy a rusty but HONEST pile of parts than repaint anyday.
Sorry for the rant, JimAnderson

[sbarr]

Yup seen it too much myself also,around here it's called a 5 gallon overhaul.Long story short I have bought junk like this before (not a crawler) only to have it fall apart a week later,this is after working all summer when I was a kid saving up cash to buy it.Everything I own is fixed,rebuilt whatever,and would not be afraid to sell anything to my best friend as I know what it is like to be on the loosing end.And like most probably would agree what we put into these crawlers is alot more than we could ever sell them for,guess it is a pride thing knowing it is in the best if not better condition than new.The crawlers and tractors I have were restored for myself and weren't restored with the idea of selling them in the future maybe this makes a difference when doing them up.The way I see it is if you are going to the bother of restoring something then do it right the first time,my 2 cents.

[carolina crawler]

WOW......Thank you all for responding......Its good to see that we are all in this for the same reason....Yes if we all needed New "Ready to Run" equipment,We would find the means to get it, but with a older unit, thats purpose is basic and Not too intense, just do a little here and there, we Can take pride in repairing it and pass it on to family or someone who else would appreciate it.all these crawlers I have seen since becoming a owner ,puzzles me, whats the lure of a older unit...thats...rusted and busted???..to give it it a new life??? to paint it and try and get a pretty penny??? to use it for minor jobs, on the farm or in the mountains??? We all have our reasons.....We have all busted one or two knuckles, heck maybe even thrown out our backs using cheater bars..trying to bring them back from the dead...But this is what we as men do.....We conquer the un-thinkable....Quote from my wife, when she saw the parts crawler.....OH>>>MY>>>GOD..... Another one.......my heart dropped, here I am excited, her, Confused... But After a few trips to the local Diamond store, she liked it...so she asked, Why dont you save all your money and buy a newer one, then some ole POS.....All I can say Is........Because.........I like the ole busted POS. And one day, Ole busted, will be NEW HOTNESS......to be continued..............

[Lu47Dan]

I have always looked for mechanical challenges it work on , be it my 1969 Bolens 1050 Garden Tractor rescued from the weeds , fitting a old Parson's Shawnee backhoe to my Farmall Super-H tractor , building a four wheel drive loader from scratch ( on going project) , fighting with old Wisconsin TJD engines to make them run again , to this 420 Crawler . It has been the Adventure of the repair and the rush of adrenaline when it works that keeps me working on these projects .
Remember to enjoy yourself when working on your latest project , because most people will never understand why we do what we do . Dan

[carolina crawler]

Is it only me, or does the 440 crawler look the best....seen lots of pictures of crawlers, but the nose of the 440 is HOT.....not to say other units are not, but no other crawler(that I know of ) duplicated the front of the 440....So I guess its fair to say a old run down unit is a better investment then buying a unit thats been re-done or painted,( unless its a known honest person) due to the fact that we may have no knowledge of the previous repairs or upkeep, and the reward we get from bringing back a classic unit from the scrapper.........thanks to this site for letting us all express overselves in words and pictures.......Lavoy 4 President?........Mark Cc

[JD440ICD2006]

I guess I am biased since I own two 440s, but I think they are the best. You can throw them on a cheap dual axle trailer, do not need CDL, permits, or a big truck to haul them around. They will do much more work than most people would believe. Once they are restored properly, they are easy to maintain, and cheap on fuel.
The 440 IC is the highest HP vertical two cylinder that JD made back then.
The 440 ICD has the very rare GM 2-53 diesel which will run forever if well maintained.
Besides all of that, the industrial tractors are growing faster in value and collectiblilty than many of the other older JDs.
I also agree that the 440s have the overall best look.

With all of that said, if I had big pushing jobs to do or needed something for regular duty, I would not be buying a 50 year old piece of equipment.

[Lavoy]

As a general rule, you are better off spending as much money as you can when buying a crawler. I did not use to think this way, but have learned my lesson. That does not mean you should over pay for a Dupont overhaul (drive by shooting), but buy the best crawler you can find as far as overall condition.
As to buying a Dupont overhaul crawler, I bought just such a 440 one time. The guy said he had $4000 in parts in the crawler, and had all the receipts to prove it. Would you believe for all the money and time he spent, he never touched a final drive or steering clutch, not to mention a lot of other stuff? When I asked him about this later, he said that they worked fine so he never touched them. Guess what, after I got the crawler home, I threw another $3000 and 3 weeks time into it fixing all these thing that were fine and did not need fixing according to him. Needless to say, I was not impressed.
As to selling a "restored" crawler, I did sell this same 440 many months later. I got a call from someone with neither the ability nor the desire to work on a crawler, but really needed one for the work he had to do. I sold the crawler for what most would call a premium price, which ended up being what I had in it not including labor. But, I could represent that crawler for what it was and tell the buyer exactly what had been done to it, not "Well it worked do I didn't touch it."
From my experience, if you are buying a "restored" crawler, make the buyer tell you exactly and specifically what was fixed or replaced on the crawler. If he can or will not, walk away.
Lavoy

[JD440ICD2006]

Lavoy,

You always give the best guidance. It is a real shame that others out there selling iron cannot do the same.
It seems so easy just to be open and honest.
What is that they say? When you tell the truth, you do not need a good memory of what you said.

Thanks for creating this site. It continues to be the source of many hours of enjoyment and information that I would have otherwise not have learned.

[Ray III]

The golden rule of the mechanical world is, "if it's got shiny paint on it, find out what they're trying to hide..."

[carolina crawler]

For example,the 440 crawler on ebay right Now....2k, reserve not met, but over 34 bids......34+...thats allot of insterested people to want to have a ole crawler...but if the crawler was in very good shape and started the bidding at 3K would people still bid??....Is it the lure of owning a old classic cheap, reguardless of condition, heck and that one needs rails it says, not a easy find, but out there....maybe because the 440 was used in toys allot and in models, that makes it a classic, sort of like owning a old smokey and the bandit trans am, people identify with it...and chuck....you have a pair of very nice looking 440s.are they related, brother/sister?....whats the best old crawler(before wet clutches) That Deere Made, strong and durable?.....Curious............Mark / Cc